Author Topic: How do you kill a dragon?  (Read 20680 times)

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Offline providence13

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #80 on: July 24, 2010, 09:02:55 AM »
I agree with just about everyone here. For this kind of combat, IMHO, it would be foolish to put everything into one all out max attack.
One attack, one spell, one anything is not likely to succeed.
You need a plan, a backup plan and a backup for that.
Many of my Dragons are going to have Spell Wall (Spell Mastered of course). No, they don't get an RR for the Phantasm spell, but the spell has to make an RR to get through.

Goose/Gander: Might as well give them an Illusion List, too. "The Huge beast smashes ceiling causing the whole cavern to collapse." Phantasm can work both ways...

Everyone has heard a story where the halfling with a shortbow dropped a TPK creature with one shot. But that doesn't happen by plan; just total random chance. :D
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Offline Skaran

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2010, 02:40:48 PM »
Perhaps the halfling just slew an illusory dragon?
And when one dreams dark dreams dark days shall follow

Offline providence13

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2010, 07:43:11 PM »
Perhaps the halfling just slew an illusory dragon?
hahha!  ;D
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Offline markc

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2010, 11:25:26 PM »
Dragon Bane!


 Of course I just made that poison up but it sounds good IMO. Sort of like your traditional bane type poison from many fantasy settings.


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Offline jasonbrisbane

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #84 on: July 25, 2010, 07:23:06 AM »
Goose/Gander: Might as well give them an Illusion List, too. "The Huge beast smashes ceiling causing the whole cavern to collapse." Phantasm can work both ways...

Everyone has heard a story where the halfling with a shortbow dropped a TPK creature with one shot. But that doesn't happen by plan; just total random chance. :D


I love this idea.  I don't know why I didn't come up with it myself!
I'm using this on the next huge combat!
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Offline dutch206

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #85 on: July 25, 2010, 07:55:06 AM »
Tactis for fighting a dragon:

Find the largest, strongest, ugliest warrior you can and put him in full plate mail.

The encumberance penalty will ensure that you can run faster than he does.

After all, you don't have to get out first, you just have to avoid being last.
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #86 on: July 25, 2010, 12:27:51 PM »
Being faster than the other guy only works on something that's hunting and stops to eat after the first kill.
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Offline providence13

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2010, 09:56:56 PM »
Rust monsters and bears...? :D
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Offline DangerMan

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #88 on: July 26, 2010, 03:55:15 AM »
any idiot GM who allows a great drake to be slain by an illusion spell deserves to be dragged out by his players and hacked to bits.

I think GMing with such a character in the group would be punishment enough :smash:
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Offline Dark Schneider

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #89 on: July 28, 2010, 08:44:30 AM »
With bad jokes, or having at least a pair of dwarves in the group, as dragons likes the taste of dwarven meat.

I think the best option is to use someone to endure the direct combat (plate armor, shield, supporting and healing spells) and the others using missile attacks and spells. It is a long long combat but at the end HPs will be depleted, or a character will have an open-ended attack after so many rolls with critical result for the dragon. If the dragon has AT 19-20, use lightning bolt spells, and why not shock bolt spells too for depleting some HPs. But the first spell you need to try are "pain" ones, those that reduces HPs by %, cast it again and again until it fails the RR or until its HPs are not good for it (then change to bolt spells), reducing 100-200 HPs at once can be hard (much resistance) but the reward is great if you achieve it.

The other way is using 2-handed weapons, but this requires all melee combatants have very good defense (plate armor with a good DB, good blessing spells, some bladeturn spells, etc.). This method is not very usefull if the dragon can fly.

In any way, IMO 1-handed melee weapons are not an option because their limited damage in proportion the big danger of stand in front or near of the dragon.

Offline kevinmccollum

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #90 on: July 28, 2010, 12:49:31 PM »
then how do you deal with the Spirit master spells ALL great drakes posses? Instant Word of Sleep and three attacks on a sleeping person = slaughterfest. Mass Word? a small group of people down more than likely. A dragons combined defenses and arsenal makes him a challenge even for a high level party.

I usually go for a younger drake, kill it (still no easy task) and make a bow from the horn (as indicated in all versions of Creatures and treasures/monsters) and use that slaying bow on future drakes. Usually, the archer gets one shot then the angry dragon is chasing him around while everyone else hacks at the wounded beast. Sure thing? heck no. but better than nothing.

Offline kevinmccollum

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #91 on: July 28, 2010, 12:50:46 PM »
Oh, fyi, Strike spells (and by extension, phantasms) are elemental so a great drake is immune. I was waiting for someone to bring that point up but.....

Offline jolt

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #92 on: July 28, 2010, 01:34:50 PM »
IMO, too much of this depends on the setting your in.  How are dragons portrayed (regardless of their stats)?  In some, dragons are little more than animals with a lot of innate power and in others they're practically deities.  If the latter is the case then your entire party had better be composed of demi-gods.  Even if you have the 'Ultimate Sword of Dragon Slaying Forged Before the Birth of Time' it doesn't help much if, before you can even remove it from the sheathe, the dragon casts his 'Scorched Earth' spell on the entire continent.

Does a dragon need to eat?  If so, then those monstrous sized dragons are going to require a massively huge hunting area; more likely larger than many kingdoms.

Where is the fight taking place?  Inside of some absurdly small cave that the dragon has spent the last few millenia in waiting, apparently, for nothing more than some adventurers to come along and kill it?

And even if you are capable of killing it, how do you prevent it from just running away?

There are so many things that go into a dragon being a dragon apart from its baseline stats.  The setting is the ultimate X factor, without which, the question is very difficult to answer.  Going just by the stats, you don't kill it; not without the aid of a plot device anyways.

jolt
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Offline providence13

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2010, 09:46:44 PM »
Strike spells (and by extension, phantasms) are elemental so a great drake is immune.

I always took that to mean normal rain, snow, forest fires, etc. But I could be wrong..
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2010, 10:35:16 PM »
Strike spells (and by extension, phantasms) are elemental so a great drake is immune.

I always took that to mean normal rain, snow, forest fires, etc. But I could be wrong..

Given that the immunity is stated as being to "natural elements" I would agree. Although I'd also grant immunity to the element breathed by the dragon. Even if magical forms are included in either a generous reading or an interpretation of elemental magic that makes the magic end with the appearance of summoned/created "natural"/"normal" elemental material, C&M specifically lists the "natural elements (fire, ice, light, air, and water). The Feel component of a Phantasm is none of those things, it is elementally physical force and immunity to that would be the same as immunity to a blow from a mace.
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Offline providence13

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2010, 10:53:44 PM »
In fact, I think it can be anything/type attack that you want! :)
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Offline kevinmccollum

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #96 on: July 29, 2010, 12:43:58 PM »
Ah. They did change the wording between RM2 Creatures and Treasure and RMSS Creatures and Monsters. In RM2, they were immune to elements, in RMSS, immune to natural elements.

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #97 on: July 29, 2010, 04:06:44 PM »
The elements referred to are listed in C&T as well and are the same as in C&M. Even in RM2, a Phantasm should be able to strike a dragon. Well, as able as anything else is.
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Offline yammahoper

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #98 on: July 29, 2010, 08:05:53 PM »
Strike can attack a dragon...but honestly, who in their right mind attacks a dragon with the armored fist table?

Talk about semantics.
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Offline providence13

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Re: How do you kill a dragon?
« Reply #99 on: July 29, 2010, 09:00:31 PM »
There is no visual component (unless you add one) and you may add Dir Spell with Stike.

That is really cool! How do you defend vs that?
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