Topic: Conveyance in Battlefield Healing

[mikerand]

Question:

In Channeling Companion in Battlefield Healing for 3rd rank Conveyance, if the character can transform into a bat if they touch the body of a willing person can they fly upwards and then take this magical stretcher upwards a 1000'? 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Personally, I would say no. Since it is basically a magical stretcher, I wouldn't allow it to go no higher than about waist high on the caster.

[mikerand]

The argument they're giving is that a real stretcher could be picked up into the air by a flying creature and used by them in on an aerial battlefield of sorts. And that it would not be making it broken as there are levitating spells at that same level in other spell lists, also characters could not really float them into the air unless they were themselves able to fly.

Would this affect anything?  Or would a race of aerial creatures use some other spell? 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The biggest problem I see is the potential for this spell to be used in place of a teleport (take them up 1,000' and the drop them).

Seeing as this spell is meant to transport the wounded, I would say that when it ends, it specifically and purposefully lowers the carried person as gently as possible to the nearest solid surface beneath the stretcher.

As for it being used by a flying race - I would have to say that movement of the stretcher should be limited to the natural movement methods of the caster (i.e. if the caster can fly because he has wings, that is one thing, but I would not allow a normal human to shapechange into a bat and move the stretcher...). I wasn't even considering the possibiltiy of usage by a flying race in my last response. 

[mikerand]

Thanks Rasyr!!!

[providence13]

Just reading that spell made my head hurt. Some things are just wide open for abuse, even if a neat idea. No defined diameter, no defined mass..., just "man-sized bodies"...

This would make an excellent necromancer's floater throne. Just need something to pull it..

Now comes the bat question. Can a bat pull an average person's mass? Maybe, I don't know. But I'll bet they can't do it up to 1000' because the spell only lasts 1 rnd/lvl. Bats are fast and strong, but IMHO, this is more of a tug-boat kind of thing. It might do it eventually.. I'd say a slow balloon may rise faster.

Maybe a few bats working together. I do think this is a great question.
Could a hunter use it to transport game. The bodies are dead. How many deer are one man-sized body?

I like the theme of the List. Just saw this spell and thought... mmmm.

[RandalThor]

P-12, I think that is what happens when they try to make a magical version of a "modern" concept. The magic version doesn't have all the normal limitations: gravity, people power, need physical object to carry with, etc..., unless it is specifically put in the description, which can get very tedious to write for every similar spell....

That is why I try to keep my magic from doing mundane things... I feel it is better suited for the exceptional things. I mean, if you need to carry a wounded friend off the battlefield, get a couple of soldiers they can't be more precious than a mage. Now, the mage if for offensive and defensive magics on the battlefield - and napping as much as possible between battles. (Darn those pesky power points!!!  )

[providence13]

Tedious spell descriptions aren't fun for anybody, RandalT. It's the very specific wording that make it odd for me.
I'm sure the creators of the spell didn't want a hand cart/hand truck/little red wagon/wheel barrel/dolly/trolley (whatever you call it where you live), that could be used for any other purpose. It's only for moving bodies...
Some questions that come to mind..
Are the bodies together on one "surface" or floating like a parapetetic "train"? Are they supported evenly and level; if leaky bodies, does it pool or leave a trail; can you use 'bodies' as a surface to carry other stuff if you're not over the weight limit; If I'm moving my train/pile o'bodies and the lazy halfling jumps on top to catch a ride...

So, by using different wording, it could be a little less vague, but also used for other purposes. My guess is the authors didn't want a 'T's Floating Disc' (from another game) and stipulated that it could only move bodies. Also, the short duration doesn't allow much room for playing around; which is probably a good thing.
Still,
 200#/3lvls, follows caster ~waist high (or must be pushed/towed), mx speed: walk
is kinda what I was talking about.. I'll have to find a List for this version to fit.

[markc]

 IIRC the spell does say a few feet off the ground and does require concentration. It also says "body" so if another body jumps on the stretcher then IMO that stretcher would slowly go to the ground and the spell disappears. Also IMO the spell would limit the max weight on the casters norm racial weights so the bat above could only carry the weight of a bat of the largest size. Also on the bat idea the concentration would affect the bats ability to fly and avoid other aerial objects.  

 Also IMO again the spell would limit the distance off the ground and give a "ride" as well as the caster is walking. So if the caster falls then bad news for the wounded. I think I would also have a Spell Mastery option that would allow the stretchers to just float there if the caster takes a spill or has to take evasive action.

MDC

BTW;
 I like the spell as it has a specific purpose that fits with in the basic "job" of an midevil medic.
MDC

[RandalThor]

Some questions that come to mind..
Are the bodies together on one "surface" or floating like a parapetetic "train"? Are they supported evenly and level; if leaky bodies, does it pool or leave a trail; can you use 'bodies' as a surface to carry other stuff if you're not over the weight limit; If I'm moving my train/pile o'bodies and the lazy halfling jumps on top to catch a ride...

Of course, some of these things could be a little different for different casters, like: You make a train, I make a line that stretches left and right. So long as the basic attributes of the spell aren't broken I don't see the harm in descriptive alterations, that harkens back to the signature spell conversation on another thread.

As for the halfling situation, if he doesn't overload the spells weight limit I don't see why not. But that also can come under the "intent" of the spell. If the halfling isn't injured, then maybe it just won't work on him, and if the stuff isn't worn by the patient/body, then it can't be taken. All that sort of stuff is up to the individual GMs. I like the fact that not every little aspect is dealt with, it allows me some latitude on somethings without having to basically erase stuff/rules.

[providence13]

Good points, all.

[Venda]

The funny thing is that the same GM allowed my bat to carry the entire party by a thread up those same 1000' after the mentalist used spell mastery to cast wind drift on everybody.

[markc]

The funny thing is that the same GM allowed my bat to carry the entire party by a thread up those same 1000' after the mentalist used spell mastery to cast wind drift on everybody.

Venda Welcome to the ICE Forums.

 If the GM allowed you to do it one way and then not the other I would ask him why. There may be an in game reason for it or maybe he just made a mistake or changed his mind on how the spell should work.
 But I cannot give you a reason why it worked once and not the other time as I do not play in your game and was not there at the time the spell was cast.

 If it was my game I would rule as I posted above and if I made a mistake I would admit it and say why I changed my ruling and move forward.
 If you were using the spell to escape then I would allow it to work and then change my ruling from that point forward. But that is me and not your GM.

Does that help?
MDC

 

[providence13]

GM allowed my bat to carry the entire party by a thread up those same 1000' after the mentalist used spell mastery to cast wind drift on everybody.

Such a spell would help as the target(self) is weightless... but that was one incredible 'Mastery roll!
Yeah, like markc said, maybe the GM let you squeak by with it once but didn't want it to happen again..? After the game, ask what's going on. Maybe there's something "special" happening. If something special happens alot, preventing you guys from understanding how the world works against some people/times and benefits  NPCs..... perhaps some anchovies in the GM's soda.

Welcome to the forums!

As for the mass of the entire party being moved by a bat holding a thread... cool!
Go Team Bat! 

[mikerand]

Yes, Venda welcome to the forums.  Yes, I am Venda's GM in this specific game.

The Mentalist in question did have Spell Mastery over that Weightlessness spell and was able to change the parameter from self to a target.

And as I told Venda, he / she / it could have used Conveyance in they way they asked if they had used Spell Mastery with it.


 

[markc]

Yes, Venda welcome to the forums.  Yes, I am Venda's GM in this specific game.

The Mentalist in question did have Spell Mastery over that Weightlessness spell and was able to change the parameter from self to a target.

And as I told Venda, he / she / it could have used Conveyance in they way they asked if they had used Spell Mastery with it.

 mikerand;
 Glad to hear the GM chime in and give his side of things.

 Is there any more questions?
MDC

[providence13]

Oh, it's the old Conveyance Spell List...
Flying Disc from Rm Comp II...
or at least a lesser form of it.

[Cory Magel]

The biggest problem I see is the potential for this spell to be used in place of a teleport (take them up 1,000' and the drop them).

It's a "U" (Utility) Spell and therefore can only be used on a willing target or a target incapable of resistance (in which case you could just slit their throat).  The spell also requires the caster to Concentrate after the 1rnd/level expires (which is a 50% action in itself).

[Ravenheart]

In Channeling Companion in Battlefield Healing for 3rd rank Conveyance, if the character can transform into a bat if they touch the body of a willing person can they fly upwards and then take this magical stretcher upwards a 1000'? 

It's a Channelling spell, so if the bats are somehow holy animals to religion in question, then maybe yes, otherwise I'd say definitely NO! It's prayer thing, spell caster praying for some help from god. I would very closely think about religions agenda, and think that how changing to animal of some sort would benefit this agenda? Is it even a sin? It's a role-playing game also, these things must be thought through before giving keys to players for such miracles.

providence13 wrote: Just reading that spell made my head hurt. Some things are just wide open for abuse, even if a neat idea. No defined diameter, no defined mass..., just "man-sized bodies"...

These things are easy to define when the magic in question is a Channelling spell. If any of my players tries tries that prayer to carry wounded war-horse that's been previously Changed to Kind (human) and then Shrinked to "man-sized" I'd just say that your thoughts are corrupted and no channeling spell can be cast on that day.

[providence13]

Ouch!
Ravenheart, I guess you don't allow Spell Mastery for Channeling.
I was thinking SM wiggle room could be cannon vs interpretation. (Even cannon is just consensus interpretation.)

It could be defined as caster-sized bodies. haha.
If a centaur cast the spell vs a Clawvein und Kling Pixie Faerie under-wear model, I guess results may vary.