Topic: Loremaster

[Walt]

Hi there,

I?m interested in Loremaster-Interpretations. How do you use this organisation (focused on Jaiman, but not totally)?

On the one hand it?s supposed to be a somehow secret organisation. Still some Loremasters are working in public. Who deals more with the Loremaster as secret organisation, who gives them a high-profile and what are your experiences?

What kind of informaton exchange system do you use between the different Loremasters and affiliates? Post? Magical Items? Non at all, only the annually report to Karilion?

Who did link the coronations in Jaiman (6 crowns and the stuff) with the Loremaster (e.g. only rightful if coronated by...) This would be a most active attitude of the Loremasters.

Whod did already use a Loremaster as a playing character? What where the difficulties (if any)?

And I?m also interested in all the other short notes about the use of Loremasters in the story.

Thanks

Walt

[Vince]

Just a small hint. I had always understood that the reports are constant through other Loremasters, journeyman or students. The annual report is more a personal meeting with the Elders to see the member in person; but they have to report at least 10 or 12 times a year IMHO.

It is stated somewhere in a book that normally the Loremaster asigned to recieve the reports is usually his former master and teacher.

[Walt]

Hi Vince,

I?ve the same feeling. There should be reports at least 4 times a year, preferably 10 to 12 times. But having a journeyman now as player in the group I was asked by my player: how can I make my reports? No easy question.
There are missing the right spells, to have in each and every town or city some affiliate woul be impossible and to send the reports through the post? Hmm, sounds not right.

So still the same question: how can a Loremaster or a journeman make his report?

[egdcltd]

Reading Powers, by the time a Loremaster is completely in the field on their own, they will actually be at Loremaster status, so will more than likely have no problem reporting back. Students don't leave for fieldwork and apprentices travel with a Master. Only Journeymen are somewhat out of touch, but they still have a full Loremaster as an advisor, and Journeymen are typically only given simple, short tasks. Only if something went drastically wrong would they really be out of touch, say their advisor is killed.

[Walt]

Thanks for the response, but please become more specific and tell me your opinion how a Loremaster is reporting back. Only to mention "so will more than likely have no problem reporting back." is to vague for me.

[egdcltd]

It's not so much the Journeyman or lower level reporting back, but their Master. The apprentice, when on field expeditions, will be with their Master at almost times, the Journeyman will more than likely be based out of the area or town that their Master operates in, and only sent short distances from that. In both cases, they would be reporting face to face; only the Master themselves would be communicating with the rest of the Loremaster organization.

Should the Master be killed or kidnapped, that's when problems would occur. Unless there are specific contingencies for such a situation, the Journeyman or Apprentice will have lost their line of communications with the rest of the organization. In such a case, communications would only be restored after the Master has failed to report at a scheduled time. Other Loremasters would then be bound to investigate, and try to establish contact with the Master's Journeyman or Apprentice, whose identity would be know. If the Journeyman has gone off somewhere, it may be some time before communications are re-established.

[Walt]

Still waiting for the answer how the Loremaster communicates with his organisation.

[yammahoper]

Seers have spells that allow for long distance communication.  I think mentalist do also.

Items could be built as daily or, even cheaper, monthly devices.

Navigators could be hired.  The Loremaster might have to make the journey himself every three months.  A network of informants may make tri-monthly visits to the stationed Loremasters.

Animals can be summoned, or demons, or elementals, or familiars sent, or training pigions trained, or whatever.

With proper arcane list, they could ride the flows.  Normal magic allows teleport  Use of a portal could make for a short(er) trip.

I never concern myself with cannon.  If Terry has an official way, i imagine it involves some potentially dangerous travel for all but the most powerful of the loremasters, or agents checking up on the stations of loremasters from time to time because that allows room for more drama.  Basically, in a fantasy setting, cell phone like communication sucks.

lynn

[Walt]

Basically, in a fantasy setting, cell phone like communication sucks.

I?m with you. I work my self a lot with rumours, changing contents while being traded. So the original situation, perhaps witnessed by somebody in Cynar, can change dramatically till told by somebody else on the marketplace in Haalkitaine.

But to come back to the communication sytem of the Loremasters I think it necessary to make your mind up how they do communicate. The Mentalist spell Mind Tongue 1mile/lvl is a level 25 spell. So it?s hardly imagninable that the Loremaster communication is done over spells or magical items. (that would be a forge!)

Summoned creatures or the standard training pigeon? An option.

So the most logical way would be your idea with the network of informants. And if you think of this idea, than the Loremaster organisation becomes really big, for sure it?s mostly no undercover work any more because there will be rumours and it could be quite easily be infaltrated through any agents of the unlife, or drgonlord, or whoever. What would make sense and create nice conflicts

[RandalThor]

I would have to say that they most likely use similar methods as where in place in our own earlier days - to a point. As the ultimate receiving location is a secret it would not do for a buch of pigeons to fly there every day!

Also, as I think about it, the loremaster order is not very large as orders go and it does have a much (MUCH) larger percentage of magic use than the rest of the world (barring certain groups, of course). I would think that this means they just might have some subtle, magic means of getting the information to Karilon, though from "bases" outside of Karilon, more mundane means could still be used, but some precautions would likely be in place to ensure that they have accurate and secure information.

But, as the organization is probably done (out in the world, not on Karilon) similar to a cell structure, each "cell" might have a bit more autonomy and only be required to send in reports annually, except in special circumstances and emergencies - which would have a special set up (probably magical) to let the next Loremaster up the chain know that something is wrong.

I am very glad that you brought this up because I have a need to think about these things with a story-arc that I am toying with that deals with a retired Loremaster's apprentice (not a Loremaster Apprentice, just the retired guy's personal apprentice).

[Walt]

chain know that something is wrong.

I am very glad that you brought this up because I have a need to think about these things with a story-arc that I am toying with that deals with a retired Loremaster's apprentice (not a Loremaster Apprentice, just the retired guy's personal apprentice).

It?s all fine if you accept that Loremasters have some vague, not definable way of magic communication. But if you?ve a Loremaster player character and you have to think about it and check the system you easily realise that there aren?t many far-distance communiction spells.

[RandalThor]

There are a lot of spell lists with long-range comm capabilities, and as the loremasters are a multi-denominational magic using bunch many would. In fact, it wouldn't be far-fetched at all to say that the order requires that each member has to develop some sort of long-range communication spell list/capability (if you are allowing psionics/psychic powers) specifically due to their secretive nature and need to not use more traditional methods. So this would mean that, yes, you could force your player to learn one of the communication spell lists if they want to reap the benefits of being a loremaster (after all, membership has both its priviledge and costs -  it can't all be in the player's favor  ).

[egdcltd]

As your PC is a Journeyman, he wouldn't stray very far from his master. So, his means of communicating with his superior doesn't depend on vague or high level magical communication means, it would be face to face.

Any organization that has as many spell users as the Loremasters could also manufacture lots of Runes with the various communication spells on them, and distribute those as needed.

[Walt]

There are a lot of spell lists with long-range comm capabilities, ...

So please Randal, help me out and give me some examples. Which ones do you know with an aceptable Range being none-Astrologer lists?

As for the the Runepapers: yes, if I would allow some kind of Endless Runepaper and habitate Karilion with lots of lots of over Level 25 Alchemists this would work fine!

The only real long-distance communication spells I know of are the Astrologers. And this makes sense in terms of power balance. If you know others, please share them.

[dutch206]

How about this as a fer-instance?  In the Bay of Izar in Emer, the Loremasters have taken up residence in an abandoned observatory in the Scorpion Ridge.  The book (I forget whether it is MA4 or Emer I) says that, in addition to its primary purpose, the observatory serves as a regional base of operations for the Loremasters.

From this example, it would be reasonable to assume that Loremasters "in the field" make their reports at regional stations.  (The people at these regional stations would then decide what needs to be sent on to Karilon.)

Also, don't forget that the Loremasters have one of Tethior's Ilyarsirii Orbs.

[Walt]

Hi dutch, I think that?s the solution. Regional stations.
Also there is the LV 14 spell "Returning" on the Loremaster base spell lists.
But the leanest method would be an organisation based on regiona stations. Which had to be secret stations, in reasonable distance. Probably, depending on the terrain, something in between 100 and 200 leagues distance? It would assume that it would be enough to report for a in the fiel loremaster every 3 months?

How do coop with "in the field" Loremasters? Are all acting in secret? And is your "normal" population aware of the Loremasters?

[egdcltd]

Mind Speech, Lofty Bridge, Movement and Mind's Door are all lists containing spells that would be useful. There are probably others too.

[vroomfogle]

Also don't forget the Astrologer Far Voice list, which has Prepare Voice which can increase the range of other Mind Tongue type spells by 50x at level 11 and 100x by level 16.

I see the communication issue has a mix of spells and special Loremaster magic items that enhance those spells.   The regional station is a great idea, I could see one in each quadrant of Emer and a two or three in Jaiman.     

Astrologers are a fantastic Profession for this type of thing.   I think the regional HQ's would be observatory type locations with an Astrologer Loremaster heading it.   Combine this with the various mind tongue spells so that in many geographic locations Loremasters will be able to communicate with the regional headquarters (at some predefined time so that the resident Astrologer at the regional HQ can use Prepare Voice). 

If that's still not enough range then the Astrologers might have magic items that boost the range multiplier of their Prepare Voice spells.

For your journeyman Loremaster, if absent from some sort of mentor, you require him to check in at certain predefined times.   For added flavor, since they are contacting an Astrologer, you make this at night-time and have it only work on a clear night when the stars are visible.  Perhaps once a month when Orhan is full (and if cloudy then they try again every night for a week).   Set up a regional HQ, figure out the radius around it with which communication is possible...outside of that range then the Journeyman won't be able to check in.

[Walt]

Mind Tongue 1mi/Lv Lv25 (Mind Speech)
Minds Door 100mi Lv30 (Minds Door)
Teleport I 10mi/Lv Lv10 (Lofty Bridge) risky, risky
And I don?t think there are useful spells on the Movement List (but I will check it)

No, for the Teleports the only useful list is "Transport" (loremaster base) with the safe Teleport (10 mi/lv) as Level 10 spell. And the "Returning" to return e.g. to Karilion in Lv 14.

And because not all my Loremasters are Lv 25+ I don?t think the idea Mind Tongue or Minds Door makes to much sense.

I also think the regional station idea makes the most sense. Combined with the Astrologer profession. 2 or 3 such stations in Jaiman would make sense. One propably east of the grey mountains, somewhere near Shenin. One I would believe in Haalkitaine. And one somewhere in the west.
And the more basic communication will probably done by notes and letters, in some secret Loremaster language (by the way, is there any?)

For our Journeyman: he was consciously seperated because of strategic reasons. But as Seer he?s using (or tryng to use) some completly different medium: Dreams. What I really like, because to dream in my campaigns is really reckless!

Where would you think the 3 base stations could be?

[DonMoody]

And because not all my Loremasters are Lv 25+ ...

I would think any Loremaster (i.e. not journeyman or student/apprentice) would be at least 20th level and likely "Loremasters are Lv 25+".

That leaves the questions of what to do about journeyman.
As previously mentioned, a journeyman would be operating in the vicinity of a Loremaster, perhaps being sent away for a day or two at a time.
And a student/apprentice would be even closer.

What about the Mentalist "Prepare Mind" series which increases the range of an incoming Mind Tongue spell?
With planned contact times, this greatly increases the range of communication.
For example, 14th and 17th level "Prepare Mind" increase range by 500 and 1,000 times, repsectively.
The 10th level Mind Tongue spell then has a range of c. 95 miles or 190 miles.
[I think 10th level is the lowest level I could see for a Journeyman Loremaster).
At 18th level, Mind Tongue has a [base] range of 1 mile.
So pre-planned communication between two individuals, one who casts a 17th level spell and one who casts an 18th level spell, could be done at a range of 1,000 miles (18th level Mind Tongue IV has range of 1 mile and 17th level Prepare Mind True increases range by 1,000 times).

Higher level individuals can increase this even further:
The 25th level caster uses Mind Tongue True (basic range if 1 mile per level or 25 miles at 25th level).
The 17th level caster uses Prepare Mind True (increases range by 1,000 times).
They can - with preplanned communication times - communicate at a range of 25,000 miles; i.e. each can be anywhere on the planet.

So that's one method for Loremasters achieving the range of communication needed.

DonMoody