Topic: skills for monsters

[black flag]

Hi all folks!
I've got one question about RMC/ how fixing skills for monsters without stats bonuses?
in HARP the monsters have skills and profession but how do it in RMC?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

C&T gives racial bonuses for the races, so you can actually do them up as any profession you want, to any level you want. However, it does not do so for other creatures.

What sort of skills would you like to see for the non-sentient monsters?

(Maybe I can work something up for the next Express Additions)

[David Johansen]

I'd just figure a flat +5 for stats and +5 or +10 per level depending on how appropriate the skill is to their role.

[yammahoper]

I use these guidelines for animals.  Most creatures should have a special talent bonus, ranging from +10 to +50 for certain skills, such as stalk, perception (perhaps a specific sense), hide, ambush, climbing, etc.  

Then I determine how important the skill is to the creature and how much time and effort they would spend mastering it versus relying on pure natural ability.  

Survival depends on skill; 2 ranks a level
Essential skill; 3 ranks every two levels
used often; 1 rank per level
in frequent use; 1 rank every other level

For all other skills, I would use the base MM bonus provided for the creature.  In addition, I consider the MM bonus provided for the creature raw talent, so I add it to any skill development.  Creatures do not generally have professions, so no level bonus is applied.  However, all creatures in the book are considered average representations of the species, so bonuses for higer stats could be added.  I assume average stats are 45-55 in range.

Note that for some creatures, I have created unique individuals for NPC's.  When I do this I flesh them out a bit more with stat mods and talents, maybe even a few flaws.  Nothing will throw off players like a typical encounter with a typical "whatever" that immediately discovered to be "not so typical", as in HOLY COW, THAT GOBLIN JUST HIT ME WITH A SHOCK BOLT!  Or goes imvisible, or jumps high in the trees, or is blessed by a war god and a questing paladin, or a dark wizzards apprentice, etc.  This can get real painful when you take an already powerful foe, like a sword demon, and rev em up a bit.

lynn

[black flag]

What sort of skills would you like to see for the non-sentient monsters?


I want master 2 types of games: low fantasy with HARP and high fantasy with RMC (because I don't like the new D&D...too complex and too unrealistic...).
But for HARP, monsters have stats bonuses and profession: You know the score of perception for wolves, trolls, demons...but this great concept lack in RMC...I haven't  the new CT (but I'll buy it in PDF format for Christmas...) but I have the old CT I & II for RM2. I was always upset by the non-skill system for monsters. How handle a situation with a monster who wants to sneak and ambush players characters?
How know stats bonuses for type V demons (for example...), Perception for bears and on, and on....like in HARP?

Maybe for a simple system for masters, a system of skills based from monsters types (elementals, demons, undead, faeries...) parallel with professions will be good (elementals= fighters, goblins= thieves, animals= rangers, demons= fighters or magic users, faeries= thieves or magic users...).

[black flag]

The key of this system I think, is the stats bonuses and stats scores for monsters. If the idea of: type of monster= profession, it must be with automatic ranks by level or with DP... I mean:
giants= fighters with 2 ranks by level in certain skills, 1 rank in certain skills, 1/2 rank in others...+ stats bonuses or
giants= fighters (or even others professions) with the base of 25 DP by level (for normal NPC) or 40 for great NPC heroes + stats bonuses...maybe too long to create NPC.

[pastaav]

How much time would an undead assassin spend praticing stalking?
How often does a dragon train stalking?

I fail to see the great merit of giving monsters professions.

[black flag]

and why not?
HARP's monsters have professions and skills: great idea!
and others rpg too: Runequest, D&D, Agone, ...

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

How much time would an undead assassin spend praticing stalking?
How often does a dragon train stalking?

I fail to see the great merit of giving monsters professions.

The great merit lies in the fact that it allows GMs to better customize the creatures.

Now, as I said above, the "races" in C&T do have racial stats, and thus, they can be developed the same as with any other race.

The issue lies with the non-sentient, non-humanoid (and yes, counting Centaurs as humanoid for THIS purpose) monsters.

What would be needed here would be the creation of a few Monster Professions and guidelines for using them. As well as racial stats for the non-race monsters.

[Tarek]

C&T gives racial bonuses for the races, so you can actually do them up as any profession you want, to any level you want. However, it does not do so for other creatures.

What sort of skills would you like to see for the non-sentient monsters?

(Maybe I can work something up for the next Express Additions)

Well the basics should be perception, stalk and hide for pretty much everything as these would be the most widely used.

Then typical values for key skills for that creature eg:
   Tracking for those creatures that hunt (wolves, tigers etc)
   Climing & Acrobatics for primates and squirrels
   Seduction for Succubi

[Maldroth]

How much time would an undead assassin spend praticing stalking?
How often does a dragon train stalking?

I fail to see the great merit of giving monsters professions.

The great merit lies in the fact that it allows GMs to better customize the creatures.

Now, as I said above, the "races" in C&T do have racial stats, and thus, they can be developed the same as with any other race.

The issue lies with the non-sentient, non-humanoid (and yes, counting Centaurs as humanoid for THIS purpose) monsters.

What would be needed here would be the creation of a few Monster Professions and guidelines for using them. As well as racial stats for the non-race monsters.

That sounds like that would be great for an EA or if it would be too much material to fit might be nice to include in Campaign Law.

I know I would love to see something like this developed further.

[Balhirath]

Note that for some creatures, I have created unique individuals for NPC's.  When I do this I flesh them out a bit more with stat mods and talents, maybe even a few flaws.  Nothing will throw off players like a typical encounter with a typical "whatever" that immediately discovered to be "not so typical", as in HOLY COW, THAT GOBLIN JUST HIT ME WITH A SHOCK BOLT!  Or goes imvisible, or jumps high in the trees, or is blessed by a war god and a questing paladin, or a dark wizzards apprentice, etc.  This can get real painful when you take an already powerful foe, like a sword demon, and rev em up a bit.

lynn

hehe I do that a lot.. mostly because the GM that taught me rolemaster did the same to me. I epsecially remember a Uruk-Hai High Warrior Monk that beat the crap out of the party and then just wandered of. (It came back later in the senario, but thats another story)
Or when we say an orc that looked like it was making sign-language to us, before the mage in the party recognized that it was throwing a fireball.

It's always fun when the players meet something that makes them sit up and blink a few times... And I say that both as a GM and as a player

 

[black flag]

Like Rasyr said, it's natural to give profession to humano?ds like creatures.
But, like in the DIVINE HARP monsters very strange to humans, elves, dwarfs, even orcs like : demons, undead, strange beast from outer space should be treated with a profession. The PC rest in an old and dark forest; in the story a big and ugly ghoul roams in the foliage to seek living beings...it's very important to me that the stats block isn't only for battles but like in the DIVINE HARP or others good RPG that the stats are: combat, life by the day skills for monsters.
I mean: for the ghoul, how big is it's score in Stalk & Hide, or for SITH how big is it's score in Duping....
It's possible with HARP (my favorite RPG )...why not with RMC? (my second favorite RPG.... ). 

[Tarek]

How much time would an undead assassin spend praticing stalking?
How often does a dragon train stalking?

I fail to see the great merit of giving monsters professions.

The great merit lies in the fact that it allows GMs to better customize the creatures.

Now, as I said above, the "races" in C&T do have racial stats, and thus, they can be developed the same as with any other race.

The issue lies with the non-sentient, non-humanoid (and yes, counting Centaurs as humanoid for THIS purpose) monsters.

What would be needed here would be the creation of a few Monster Professions and guidelines for using them. As well as racial stats for the non-race monsters.

That would be great for special encounters, but it would involve a significant investment of time. However, it doesn't replace the need for skills for C&T. For less significant encounters a few basic skills would be really useful rather than having to wing it or spend too much time calculating the skills.

Also, most monsters SHOULD be off the peg. If all monsters are developed then the suprise factor of a new and unique monster would be wasted.

[rboleyn]

Hi all folks!
I've got one question about RMC/ how fixing skills for monsters without stats bonuses?
in HARP the monsters have skills and profession but how do it in RMC?

I would just assign a few bonuses and penalties to stats I thought were exceptionally high or low, and then modify the numbers in the NPC table in Character Law. For secondary skills I'd just give them a total skill bonus I thought was appropriate to their level and competency in that skill. I've always found that Rolemaster is very forgiving of just 'making stuff up' when it comes to NPCs.

[yammahoper]

I agree with rboleyn.  Calculating a skill takes maybe 15 seconds.  However, a small list of skills wouldnt hurt and really seems to appeal to the new gamers desire/need for lots of extraneous info.

lynn

[mtpnj]

What about Stun manuever?  We have had that discussion in my group about if a creature could relieve stun?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

What about Stun manuever?  We have had that discussion in my group about if a creature could relieve stun?

In RMC, there is no such skill as "stunned maneuver" or "stun removal", nor will there be.

[black flag]

The true problem for me, in RMC is the lack of stats bonuses for monsters like demoins, undead...It'll be simple to calculate skills bonus with bonuses from stat scores. I mean...a very angry moloch will have 2 ranks by level to weapons (if it's a fighter...)+ bonuses.
Maybe non-humano?d monsters should have archetypal professions (like the base profession but more simple to handle for the master to create...).

[Tarek]

Beware treating Monster levels as character levels. Monster levels often reflect a 'threat' or power level rather than an experience level.

As monsters have special abilities their power comparable to a character of the same experience level can be disproportionate. Adding skills at the level will sometimes make a dramatic difference to the actual power involved, and changing profession could make an even greater difference (imagine making a flying creature with only melee attacks into a magician).

If you're going to go with monster professions you also need to be careful to adjust the level for experience and to allow less experienced GMs and to judge their equivalent level for challenge purposes. Notes on certain class/creature combinations should also be included to suggest limits on professions or adjustments to the power/threat level.