Author Topic: Armor/Weapon interaction...  (Read 3715 times)

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Offline GoblynByte

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Armor/Weapon interaction...
« on: September 22, 2007, 08:00:11 AM »
In RPGs I've always enjoyed an aspect of various types of weapons with various types of effects against various types of armor.  Rolemaster/MERP was my first introduction to this dynamic and it was one of the things that snared me in about those systems.  Even AD&D 2e had this dynamic to a certain degree.

So, short of expanding to Arms Law, what would you do to inject this into HARP?  Just simple modifiers (slashing weapons have -5 vs whatever type of armor)?  Any suggestions?
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Offline Right Wing Wacko

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Re: Armor/Weapon interaction...
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 11:45:44 PM »
Martial Law adds too that a liitle in HARP.. damage reduction by armor, etc.

Pardon.. I was drunk... Martial Lawe may have a little of wot you are looking for...

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Offline janpmueller

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Re: Armor/Weapon interaction...
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2007, 11:31:23 AM »
I don't own RM titles, so I can't tell wether what I propose now is similar to it - I used to play RM, though, and you do have a point: The interaction of weapon and armor was very nice.

The modifier version is what they do in Martial Law (rigid leather is default, all else give more (or less) stun/ bleeding/ hits). I find that tedious to remember, though, and not very flexible.
I started thinking about a table, but realized: It's not possible to squeeze this option in without ending up with something so similar to RM that it wouldn't make sense to switch systems altogether.

We have 3 things to think about in Harp: Weapon Size, Hit Location and Armor.
Every critical table needs to have roll result by row. So, by column, we can put in one of the said options: hit location (as is done in Martial Law), weapon size (as in Hack n Slash) or armor, as you wish for.
If we want several of these in one combat system, we either need to come up with a solution that doesn't need a table, or accept another table dimension (as in Rolemaster).
E.g., you could have a single table for "Tiny Crush". That way, armor could go into the columns, and hit location would be solved via modifiers (as in HnS).

So, you could have a single table for "Crush on Hand", with either armor or hit-location in the column, or "Crush vs. Chain", with either weapon size or hit location in the column. The remaining option in each example would have to be solved by modifier.
Else, we need cubic tables. :)

I believe ICE thought this through, and found Armor Adjustment to be the least important thing, so they left it out. Somehow, it's true, because armor affects the attack anyway (by DB), and weapon size and hit location have been highlighted in HnS and Martial Law.

Phew. Does any of this make sense?
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Dr_Sage

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Re: Armor/Weapon interaction...
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2007, 04:48:20 PM »
I remmember that interaction in old ADnD.

I see 2 main approaches over this:

1) Game balance uni-linear:

ML covers much of it. Better armor = better defense and so on. Some attacks cold be more detailed but thats all.

2) Semi-realistic:

Soft leather armor is crap against piercing or maybe chain mail does not help much against blunt weapons and so on. I do not recomend this, becuse we will create true Frankestein Rule System.
We would have to integrate this with all the elemental and random types of magical and mundane effects.

I just recommend don?t mess with it becuse it will generate imbalances.

Offline Thos

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Re: Armor/Weapon interaction...
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2007, 06:23:31 PM »
I have to agree with Dr_Sage on this one.
My wizards are many, but their essence is mine. Forever they are in the hills in their stone homes of grief. Because I am the spirit of their existence. I am them.

Offline GoblynByte

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Re: Armor/Weapon interaction...
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 06:20:15 PM »
I remmember that interaction in old ADnD.

I see 2 main approaches over this:

1) Game balance uni-linear:

ML covers much of it. Better armor = better defense and so on. Some attacks cold be more detailed but thats all.

2) Semi-realistic:

Soft leather armor is crap against piercing or maybe chain mail does not help much against blunt weapons and so on. I do not recomend this, becuse we will create true Frankestein Rule System.
We would have to integrate this with all the elemental and random types of magical and mundane effects.

I just recommend don?t mess with it becuse it will generate imbalances.

Well, if I were to delve into such things my concern would be more toward a nod to realism rather than balance.  IMVHO balance is the bane of an enjoyable experience and only serves to make a game more of a game and less of a tool for good story telling...but that's just me.  ;D
A man said to the universe:
"Sir I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
--Stephen Crain

Dr_Sage

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Re: Armor/Weapon interaction...
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2007, 12:41:40 AM »
Well,

by all means go for it my friend.

I personaly had very bad experiences, specially with modern games. Magic does not intereact very well mwith physys. Trust me on that one.

One small tip: a true realistic scenario would not have 20% of the fantasy gear at the same time, becuse historicaly (at least in Europe) the newer technology of weapons influenced the armor technology and the other way around, starting the "arms-race".  Many diferent types of armor did not actually cohexisted and the array of choices of the PCs would be thin. Not to consider the way elemental spells would influence the development of armor technology...

Peace bro.