Topic: Directed Spells

[Dunadan]

So if a character has developed ranks in "Directed Spell - Shock Bolt" (L2 in Light Law). And at a later stage wants to cast Shock Bolt III (L8 in Light Law 2) does the ranks for "Directed Spell - Shock Bolt" count?

Or does the character need to develop separate ranks in "Directed Spell - Shock Bolt I" and "Directed Spell - Shock Bolt III"?

From the spell description they are the same with the exception that Shock Bolt III has a greater range (300').

Tx in anticipation

[Majyk]

I may be biased, haha, but in our old RM2 games I’d allow Dir. Spells to be developed as a base skill with no tag for what it was attached to.

Akin to how one develops Missile Weapon Category Skill Ranks in RMSS and then later adds to these with individual named weapon ranks like Sling/Longbow/Heavy X-Bow.

I would then allow half this bonus to be applied to any and all directed spells that the player would possess, as a base OB.

As a player reaches a level that allows more particular spells to be cast(Waterbolt, Firebolt, etc.), I would allow one to add this base OB to any new ranks developed, listed as Dir. Spells - Fire Bolt; Dir. Spells - Ice Bolt.

So 2x ranks/lvl developed until 4th level of the non-named base skill = +50 total bonus...remember Adolescence ranks

All Directed Spells ever known and also able to be cast without ESF will now get a +25 as a base OB(think as this having a -25 applied for not having the named skill, itself, developed).

Once LVL 2 is reached and if the PC has access to the spell in the first place, the spell user develops 2x ranks in “Dir. Spells - Shock Bolt” and now has an additional +30 to add to the original base OB of 25.

Just getting access to Water Bolt @ LVL 4 only allows 2x total ranks to be developed, Total, and so it now only gets +10 to add to. The base OB of 25.

*=*=*

To answer your question, though, any named spell that merely added a number to itself is the same spell and was allowed to use the original base “named” directed spell bonus.

So all Shock Bolts(n) would get the full Dir. Spell - Shock Bolt OB.

[jdale]

RMSS and RMFRP give the five skills as Fire Bolts, Ice Bolts, Lightning Bolts, Shock Bolts, and Water Bolts. So e.g. if you have Shock Bolt skill, that helps you with all types of Shock Bolts, but not with Lightning Bolts.

RMU just has the skill as Elemental Bolts (all kinds of bolts of all elements), Illusionary Attacks, and Hurling (e.g. telekinetic type attacks).

I'm not sure what RM2/RMC say.

[Peter R]

My reading of RMC says that Directed Spells: Shockbolt applies to all shockbolts.

[Ginger McMurray]

I'm not sure if it's official or not, but I've always viewed directed spells as similar skills. Since you can't practice one without being able to cast the spell, starting to learn how to target a Lightning Bolt at 10th level would be kinda pointless unless you know the campaign is going into the 20s. Even Fire Bolt at 6th (10 ranks at 11th) is a stretch.

[Fingolfin80]

Since you can't practice one without being able to cast the spell, starting to learn how to target a Lightning Bolt at 10th level would be kinda pointless unless you know the campaign is going into the 20s. Even Fire Bolt at 6th (10 ranks at 11th) is a stretch.

True, that's the reason I like the RMU version better, with few broader skills that cover many spells.

[Ginger McMurray]

I'd love to give RMU a go, but my group isn't terribly rules focused. I definitely can't give them 600 pages of character and magic rules then follow it up with "and also, you'll need to look at several different forum posts for updates." When it hits the shelves I'll be picking it up for myself and giving them a report on the differences to see if they're interested in switching.

[Peter R]

I'd love to give RMU a go, but my group isn't terribly rules focused. I definitely can't give them 600 pages of character and magic rules then follow it up with "and also, you'll need to look at several different forum posts for updates." When it hits the shelves I'll be picking it up for myself and giving them a report on the differences to see if they're interested in switching.

I would suggest not trying to list the differences as it will be just about everything. Give them some pregens and run a one-shot adventure for them. Let them see how it plays.

[Hurin]

I would suggest not trying to list the differences as it will be just about everything. Give them some pregens and run a one-shot adventure for them. Let them see how it plays.

I second this!

In regards to RMu specifically, I think it plays easier than any RM edition so far. The removal of the declaration phase, where you asked new players to allot each % of their activity for the round before they knew where the enemy would be, makes things a lot easier; I think DnD players especially will be grateful for that. No longer needing charts to make spell attacks (RR ones) or to do moving maneuvers also really cuts down on the 'Chartmaster' blues. Character creation is still complex, but that's what pregens are for.

[Ginger McMurray]

The removal of the declaration phase, where you asked new players to allot each % of their activity for the round before they knew where the enemy would be, makes things a lot easier; I think DnD players especially will be grateful for that.

This is something they'll never have to worry about. We'll be using the simplified initiative system, which is a lot like D&D's.

No longer needing charts to make spell attacks (RR ones) or to do moving maneuvers also really cuts down on the 'Chartmaster' blues.

This intrigues me... Go on...

Character creation is still complex, but that's what pregens are for.

I've always loved creating characters in any game system. I'm happy to help them out, make one entirely for them, or kick back and let them do it. I've also always been very open to changes after a player has a feel for the game. i.e. swapping around a few points here and there if it turns out underwater basket weaving wasn't nearly as much fun as you thought it would be.

[Hurin]

I'm not sure what RM2/RMC say.

The core rule in RM2 was very restrictive: you had to develop skill for each separate spell, and you could not start developing the skill until you could cast the spell.

RoCoII offered the option of counting the skills as similar skills, but cautioned that this would 'result in spell users being better than normal in the casting of directed spells.' It suggests possibly restricting the similar spell rule to Pure Spell Users and some select Hybrids.

I think it is significant that the designers of the game thought making the skills similar would make spellcasters abnormally powerful.

[Hurin]

No longer needing charts to make spell attacks (RR ones) or to do moving maneuvers also really cuts down on the 'Chartmaster' blues.

This intrigues me... Go on...

Spells with RRs are now just a simple opposed check: If the caster wins, the spell takes effect; if the target wins, it doesn't. You don't need the seven different columns (general, Essence vs. Metal armor, Essence vs. Leather armor, etc.) on the Base Spell Attack table when you can just represent the different columns by a simple bonus to the RR for the various types of armor. In fact, you don't need that table at all.

Nor do you need the RR table, because you can just give a bonus directly to the caster's roll (the bonus is +2/level above target's, and -2/level below target's).

Similarly, you don't need a maneuver chart when you realize that you can just make the % of activity completed equivalent to the final skill roll as a percentage. Did you roll 110? Then you completed 110% of your activity. Rolled a 63? You completed 63% (or have a 63% chance of succeeding on an all-or-nothing maneuver). You can still use the chart if you want -- RMu includes it for those that want it, especially if you want to look up the unique results of a very high roll, a very low roll, or an unmodified 66 -- but you don't need it anymore. You can resolve maneuvers perfectly fine (and quickly!) without a chart.

I've always loved creating characters in any game system. I'm happy to help them out, make one entirely for them, or kick back and let them do it. I've also always been very open to changes after a player has a feel for the game. i.e. swapping around a few points here and there if it turns out underwater basket weaving wasn't nearly as much fun as you thought it would be.

I love creating characters too. I am currently getting near the end of making a character of almost every class, at level 2 and 5, as pregens for my introductory adventures and Gen Con sessions. I've posted some on these boards so far, and will post the rest when I'm done.

[Majyk]

I'm not sure what RM2/RMC say.

RoCoII offered the option of counting the skills as similar skills, but cautioned that this would 'result in spell users being better than normal in the casting of directed spells.' It suggests possibly restricting the similar spell rule to Pure Spell Users and some select Hybrids.

That must be where I got my rule from - man, I loved RoCo II(Skillz!) and III(Attack and Crit Charts!)

[Peter R]

I'm not sure what RM2/RMC say.

The core rule in RM2 was very restrictive: you had to develop skill for each separate spell, and you could not start developing the skill until you could cast the spell.

Did RM2 Spell Mastery treat them [shock bolts] as discreet spells or as variations of the same spell? I am just curious. In RMC all varieties of the same spell I, II all the way to True and Lord spells are the same spell.

[Hurin]

Did RM2 Spell Mastery treat them [shock bolts] as discreet spells or as variations of the same spell? I am just curious. In RMC all varieties of the same spell I, II all the way to True and Lord spells are the same spell.

The core rules for Spell Mastery said 'Each individual spell requires separate skill development', but also added, 'A GM may establish "similar" spell groups'. Note though that the rule for similar skills in the core RM2 books means you only get half ranks in similar skills: so if you had 10 ranks in Dagger, you only get 5 ranks in Short Sword.

RoCoII introduced more options on how to handle similar skills, and might even be read to suggest that one could develop skill in 'Fire Bolts' (note the plural) as a category. That is just one possible interpretation though.

We always played as if Fire Bolt I, Fire Bolt II, etc., were all one single spell. But we didn't give any other types of Directed Spells (e.g. Shock Bolt) similar skill bonuses.

[Ginger McMurray]

My take, not necessarily RAW:

• Every spell whose only difference is the distance counts as the same spell for all purposes.
• All bolt spells count as similar skills and get half ranks.

I like players being able to use their characters' abilities to the fullest ASAP. Spell casting time requirements already suck until you get some good ESF mods. What is it, 8th level, before you can do a shock bolt very round? Meanwhile the non-casters are getting to attack every round. Sometimes twice.

[Ginger McMurray]

Spells with RRs are now just a simple opposed check: If the caster wins, the spell takes effect; if the target wins, it doesn't. You don't need the seven different columns (general, Essence vs. Metal armor, Essence vs. Leather armor, etc.) on the Base Spell Attack table when you can just represent the different columns by a simple bonus to the RR for the various types of armor. In fact, you don't need that table at all.

Nor do you need the RR table, because you can just give a bonus directly to the caster's roll (the bonus is +2/level above target's, and -2/level below target's).

Similarly, you don't need a maneuver chart when you realize that you can just make the % of activity completed equivalent to the final skill roll as a percentage. Did you roll 110? Then you completed 110% of your activity. Rolled a 63? You completed 63% (or have a 63% chance of succeeding on an all-or-nothing maneuver). You can still use the chart if you want -- RMu includes it for those that want it, especially if you want to look up the unique results of a very high roll, a very low roll, or an unmodified 66 -- but you don't need it anymore. You can resolve maneuvers perfectly fine (and quickly!) without a chart.

I like the sound of all that. Those are definitely reasons to get RMU once it is fully born.

I love creating characters too. I am currently getting near the end of making a character of almost every class, at level 2 and 5, as pregens for my introductory adventures and Gen Con sessions. I've posted some on these boards so far, and will post the rest when I'm done.

I just finished that for pregens for my intro adventure, though I left out some classes. I didn't do hybrid casters or evil casters. I did include a couple of RMCI and II classes. I may go go back and add a couple more like warrior mage and druid.

[Hurin]

I like players being able to use their characters' abilities to the fullest ASAP. Spell casting time requirements already suck until you get some good ESF mods. What is it, 8th level, before you can do a shock bolt very round? Meanwhile the non-casters are getting to attack every round. Sometimes twice.

Then you're really going to like RMU, which has eliminated the casting times for spells at or below the caster's level.

[Ginger McMurray]

I like players being able to use their characters' abilities to the fullest ASAP. Spell casting time requirements already suck until you get some good ESF mods. What is it, 8th level, before you can do a shock bolt very round? Meanwhile the non-casters are getting to attack every round. Sometimes twice.

Then you're really going to like RMU, which has eliminated the casting times for spells at or below the caster's level.

Does it do anything to lower power level based on that? Or raise others? Or is it unnecessary given the rest of the system's structure?

[Hurin]

Does it do anything to lower power level based on that? Or raise others? Or is it unnecessary given the rest of the system's structure?

The general consensus was that casters were very weak in RM2, especially at low levels, so this is one of the buffs that RMU gives to them. Your first level Magician won't have to spend three rounds to cast a Shield spell. Whether that makes casters overpowered in RMU is a debatable point.