Topic: Is Rolemaster healing underpowered?

[hal_s]

In most other RPGs, even a first level Cleric can heal a character from the brink of death: because it’s all just hit point based.

But in Rolemaster, a spellcaster needs to be very high level before he can handle the types of criticals that the characters will experience while adventuring. Is Rolemaster too harsh? Even if you halved the level of all healing spells (so that a 12th level spell became 6th level), I still think that a Rolemaster healer wouldn’t be as powerful as healing spellcasters in other systems.

Does anyone use any house rules to make healing easier?

[markc]

 I start PC's at higher levels Pure Spell Casters at 5th Semi's/Hybrides at 4th and Pure Arms/Arcane at 3rd. This works out very well IMHO.
MDC

[Marc R]

I also think that a lot of dead PCs fall into the categories of terminally unlucky or terminally brave. . .I've seen the same person go through a character every 2-3 sessions and consistently keep running at enemies, going full OB and getting killed.

RM is a high-danger game, and people who trust luck to not take a terminal crit tend to run out of luck eventually.

I play with 1st level characters . . .and they usually "adventure" close enough to home to call backup. . .and close enough to drag your buddy to help with the tourniquet keeping them alive.

At 2-3rd they wander a bit farther afield. . .but still not so far they can't haul wounded to help.

Higher the levels, the more independently they operate.

1st level characters way out in danger, beyond backup, too far to get help or drag their friends to help, is a scary, scary scenario.

It should be.

If you're going to pursue a violent life, it's best not to go in over your head. . .when my players want to skip right to jumping in the deep end, we start higher level characters.

People point this out often, and my response is that 1st level characters are not "stand alone, far from help, kick butt veterans ready to operate cut off from any help vs desperate odds". . . .if they were, then the first time you got into a fight with some teenagers, they'd be "stand alone, far from help, kick butt veterans ready to operate cut off from any help vs desperate odds" and kick the living crap out of the party. . .you're 1st level, you're a noob, an apprentice, a neophyte, a shave head recruit. . .listen to your Sgt/mentor/father superior, and they'll keep you alive. . .when you grow up you'll chew bricks and brave horrible dangers. . .

And if you want to skip right to Sgt, start at 5th level.

[Marc R]

Sorry. . .that wasn't responsive.

If you want a cleaner, easier healing mechanic (one I've used in the past)

A made up list called:

Healing Prayers (Channeling Cleric Base)

During these spells, the caster must pray over the target for the time alloted, they may take breaks to sleep, but pick up praying again when they awaken.

1st level - Healing Prayers - Cures any injury up to -5, takes 1 hour per -1 repaired.
2nd level - Healing Prayers II - Cures any injury up to -10, takes 1 hour per -1 repaired.

etc etc in increments of -5s up to 20th level which cures up to -100 injuries

The 25 level is as 20th, cures up to caster's level of targets.

The 30th level is as 20th, but it's 1 minute per -1 repaired.

The 50th level is as 30th, cures up to level of targets.

It made healing take a lot of downtime, but made almost anything survivable healable. . .and explained why in that game world, there was always a priest or nun sitting in the chair next to your bed praying over you.

[rdanhenry]

Yeah, combat in Rolemaster is actually pretty scary. That's partly due to deadliness, but also because even if you survive you can actually be hurt. I'm still limping from spraining my ankle slipping getting out of bed Monday last week. Characters who are less handicapped than I am now after they take multiple weapon hits aren't heroic, they're cartoonish. If you don't want at least a little grittiness in your game, Rolemaster is the wrong system.

That said, you also have medical skills and healing herbs as well as spells. Not to mention at least of couple of helpful talents. If your characters are running around without every single one of them learning First Aid, and yet they are seeking out opportunities to injured, they are fools.

Don't look at injured characters as a problem. Think of it as an opportunity. While a PC is getting around on crutches while his bone knits naturally, it is time for research, NPC interactions, rumor gathering, and the use of non-combat skills that might have been neglected if the PCs could simply hop from fight to fight. If a PC truly needs the services of a higher level healer (e.g. Joining for a severed hand), then there's a chance to set the next plot hook firmly in his fishy lip as the healer is willing to cut quite a deal as long as the PCs will do him a "little favor".

[yammahoper]

Another possible house rule: allow spell casting at a level equal the list is known.  So if bone law is known to sixth level, the spell user cast spells from that list as if 6th level.

This eliminates over casting.  It also increases the strenth of spell users dramatically (a level on spell caster will kow list to level three easily, and essentially be a level three caster for prep, etc).

[hal_s]

If you don't want at least a little grittiness in your game, Rolemaster is the wrong system.

The combat charts in Rolemaster are awesome. The issue is whether healing spellecasters should be so weak compared to healing spellcasters in other RPGs.

I think if I created a rule that all healing spells up to level 10 are halved (so that a level 10 spell becomes only a level 5 spell, with lower casting costs and useable by lower level characters) and spells above level 10 are reduced by 5 levels, this wouldn't create a Monty Haul campaign or make healing spellcasters too powerful. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Marc R]

Jacking healing up. . .especially if you get enough quick heal. . .means the PCs only need to survive encounters, not missions. . .in my experience it leads to a blitz mentality, which makes the party a lot more dangerous, but also leads to more crits, and both the need for more healing, and more 00 dead in the head unfix-able results.

It's a balancing point that can get just as bad with too common herbs but it's not a clear line, so you may need to feel your way into it, and tell the players up front that you're relaxing healing to make it easier, but may adjust a little tighter if it's too much. . .usually if you tell them up front, it makes for less complaining when you pull on the reins.

[Cory Magel]

While Rolemaster can be particularly nasty in certain respects, if your players party is getting beat up a lot on a regular basis something might simply be wrong with the balance of what is being thrown at them or their own tactics.

I know it took some of our group a while to learn they really did need to parry most the time... if they found they were obviously the stronger combatant then they could go more all out on attacking, but that it was a very wise move to approach fights conservatively - which makes for a more realistic situation.  It was a slightly painful lesson at times.  (Thankfully one of the first things we did when learning RM - by way of MERP - was run like four to five text combats, so we had a good handle on it by the time we ran a campaign).

On the other hand you may simply be pitting them against too strong of or too many foes.  If that ends up being the case just tone things down for, say, two to four levels of adventuring.  Once they can actually sustain the party then ramp things back up a bit.

[Elton Robb]

In most other RPGs, even a first level Cleric can heal a character from the brink of death: because it’s all just hit point based.

But in Rolemaster, a spellcaster needs to be very high level before he can handle the types of criticals that the characters will experience while adventuring. Is Rolemaster too harsh? Even if you halved the level of all healing spells (so that a 12th level spell became 6th level), I still think that a Rolemaster healer wouldn’t be as powerful as healing spellcasters in other systems.

Does anyone use any house rules to make healing easier?

The best thing to do with Rolemaster is to taper off the dungeon crawls until the party healer is ready to deal with it.  May I suggest that the PC healer is given time to advance to sufficient level before you go dungeoneering (about 3rd to 4th level).  Then he can try Extraordinary Spell Casting to heal those wounds.  Try doing character development adventures and do light dungeon exploring adventures such as a one floor structure like a small church.

[DangerMan]

In most other RPGs, even a first level Cleric can heal a character from the brink of death: because it’s all just hit point based.

I must admit I still have some troubles with the rules on death and healing, but arent the ability to heal hits and stop bleeding the basics that will save most PCs, save the instant kill criticals (for which we have faith points)?

Also, in RMSS/FRP at least, a low level cleric/healer, can cast spells at higher levels, given he has the time to concentrate and the ranks.

We've used to have lethality issues, but have gotten better at surviving by stacking up on herbs and having some basic healing spells (arcane healing by talent). From time to time we've had loooong "breaks", camping for weeks or lingering in cities, as broken bones mend etc. If these recovery periods get boring we spimply press the FastForward button

[Grinnen Baeritt]

An important considertion that Rolemaster 1st level characters are not the same as 1st level D&D chracters, it's been said before that a 3rd level Rolemaster character is about the same power level as a 1st level D&D character.

Personally, I think its about right. After all, Rolemaster has herbs and a wider variety of characters can use healing magic..and first aid is a fairly common skill. Also as has been mentioned above... it's often the gung ho attitude that causes the problems.

[RandalThor]

I do not change it as I feel that healing is too easy in those other games. I like there to be reasons to defend and act in a way that is, at least, somewhat realistic. Plus, it is just another part of the adventure to have to deal with a wounded comrade while in the Cave of Ultimate Doom - sometimes you can't just go straight through, you have to leave and come back.

[hal_s]

The best thing to do with Rolemaster is to taper off the dungeon crawls until the party healer is ready to deal with it.  May I suggest that the PC healer is given time to advance to sufficient level before you go dungeoneering (about 3rd to 4th level).

I'm not sure why a guy with healing ability would want to go adventuring at all when there's big money to be made just working for a living as a healer. Doctors make a lot of money in our real world, and they don't even have any magical skills. In a Rolemaster world, healers would probably be super-wealthy like investment bankers are in our world.

Anyway, the consensus opinion seems to be that (1) yes, healers are underpowered in rolemaster compared to other RPGs; but (2) this makes Rolemaster better because those other games are unrealistic.

[Marc R]

Not really, it's just more like things are stretched a bit at the bottom to make a bottom realistic.

In RM, if you arrive in the town in the forest being menaced by some creature, the town folk are not 0 level 1-8 HP place holding drones who exist to offer services and act the part of straw victims.

That's because the lanky teenager cutting hay is first level, all the late teens are first level. . .their parents are higher than first level. . .

When I was 17, I wouldn't say I was self sufficient and ready to handle anything thrown my way (though I might have thought so at the time).

The issue, is that 1st level in RM does not mean what it means in some systems, which is:

"Starting out, but at least a full factor superior to the ordinary drones that make up the non adventuring masses."

in RM it's:

"I am just getting started on my life path, a teenager full of youthful vigor, but short on experience. . ."

To use a real life comparrison:

Rarely would a squad of 18 year old privates be sent out independently, they'd usually be lead by a 20something or 30something NCO. . .and that's not accidental. . .

When seriously wounded in the field, the 18 year old trained as a medic does what he can to stabilize the injury, so the wounded can then be carried to help.

The better paid, older, less expendable medical people await at the field hospital to take care of them.

So there's magic in play. . .when you're 1st level you do magic first aid, when you're 5th you do magical field medic, when 10th magical minor doctoring and when 20th magical major doctoring. . .the magic part just skips most of the recovery time.

But the 17 year old lifeguard with a first aid course under his belt doesn't sew your severed hand back on at the side of the pool, he just keeps you from dying, and they get you to a hospital where a team of surgeons with a combined medical experience of over 100 years sews your hand back on.

It's a realism factor, that is intended to make combat scary, and also to force low level PCs to either pay or obey to get access to high end medical care when they need it, and also to make it possible to have realistic populations of low level people, rather than subsuming all non adventurers into a 0 level mass of fairly useless drones.

That doesn't make RM "Better". . ."better" or "worse" in this instance will vary from person to person according to the kind of game they want.

What I think was being said wasn't that RM is objectively superior due to the realism, just that the issue of "Healing is non casual in RM" is an intentional feature of the system, not a mistake or an error. If you're going to ask on an RM board, likely most people will prefer it that way. . .(and some will say it makes the system "better". . .but if they didn't prefer it, why would they be here?)

That said RM is made for tweaking, so tweak it to make it the best game for you, I can assure you I do, and likely everyone else here does to. . .if one person here plays the game vanilla, pure RAW with no tweaks or modifications, I'd be fairly surprised.

[Elton Robb]

I'm not sure why a guy with healing ability would want to go adventuring at all when there's big money to be made just working for a living as a healer. Doctors make a lot of money in our real world, and they don't even have any magical skills. In a Rolemaster world, healers would probably be super-wealthy like investment bankers are in our world.

Healers who do wander and adventure to help others are very strange indeed.  They are pretty eccentric compared to other lay healers and healers. It's no different than the battlefield medic or the backpacking across Europe sort who want to be doctors.

[Cormac Doyle]

There's a coupe of things

First - as LordMiller/Celedor/marc R (BTW - STOP CHANGING YOUR NAME) has stated, certain other RPGs assume that all non-adventuring individuals are "level 0 mooks"

In RM and HARP, the average npc is lvl 3-5.

Starting characters in other systems are lvl1 ... which is a huge step UP from the average populous (lvl0)
Starting characters in RM and HARP are lvl1 ... which is a huge step DOWN from the average populous (lvl4)

This must be remembered when making assumptions about the capacity of healing lists and typical damage.

it should also be bourne in mind when the GM is deciding what opponents to throw against the party.

of course, the the Players want the feel of that other system ... they should be give starting characters which are at least 4th/5th level ...

[Ecthelion]

But in Rolemaster, a spellcaster needs to be very high level before he can handle the types of criticals that the characters will experience while adventuring. Is Rolemaster too harsh? Even if you halved the level of all healing spells (so that a 12th level spell became 6th level), I still think that a Rolemaster healer wouldn’t be as powerful as healing spellcasters in other systems.

A 1st level healer (and higher level caster too, of course) in RM can learn & cast spells a bit higher than his own level, so that he can heal simple bleeding, bone breaks etc. Of course severe damage, like a shattered knee, cannot be healed until later levels. But IMO that is just fine. Personally I think it's better when the characters in some cases have to return to a town to get healing for severe damage. That teaches them to not engage in every combat. It would just be disturbing if they had to return after every simple type of injury because that would make it more difficult to advance with a campaign or adventure.

Does anyone use any house rules to make healing easier?

No. But we use the Fate Point rule from Channeling Companion to avert deadly criticals from unlucky dice rolls. And we learned that it is useful to parry to not suffer the wounds in the first place.

[Cormac Doyle]

NB - in HARP, healing is made easier ... to the point that it is in my opinion too easy.

[Elton Robb]

BTW, I think the typical Rolemaster character is 5 levels behind the usual D&D 4th Edition character.