Topic: YARLQ: Effect of Study spells on spending DP for Lore skills

[Old Man]

YARLQ = Yet Another Rules Linking Question - aka, my players are fond of pointing out how the various books don't interlink hence these sorts of questions...

So, how does the Bard (or ROCO II Sage) Study spell affect spending DP on Lore/academic skills?

Would you give a multiplier as if the Bard/caster regularly used a Learn Language *X spell?

Regards,
Old Man

[Temujin]

In RMSS, where books do take into accounts the others , Study spells don't multiply Lore, and I wouldn't advise it anyway.  Multiplying languages is less unbalancing than multiplying Lores...

[Nders]

In RMSS, where books do take into accounts the others Cheesy

Please note that as long as we talk core material, that is Arms law, Spell law and character/campaign law, this is also the case with rm2

[markc]

YARLQ = Yet Another Rules Linking Question - aka, my players are fond of pointing out how the various books don't interlink hence these sorts of questions...

So, how does the Bard (or ROCO II Sage) Study spell affect spending DP on Lore/academic skills?

Would you give a multiplier as if the Bard/caster regularly used a Learn Language *X spell?

Regards,
Old Man

 I know this is in the RM2/C/E section but do you have the RMSS core book? If you do I would use those rules that reduce the DP cost for learning skills or simply provide a direct bonus to the use of the skill. Remember that the PC will have to be casting the spell regularly so it will reduce his PP which it more of a consideration in RM2 than in RMSS.

Hope that helps.
MDC

[Old Man]

I know this is in the RM2/C/E section but do you have the RMSS core book? If you do I would use those rules that reduce the DP cost for learning skills or simply provide a direct bonus to the use of the skill. Remember that the PC will have to be casting the spell regularly so it will reduce his PP which it more of a consideration in RM2 than in RMSS.

So how would you apply the Study spell? As a further -10% to the time? (to a -40% max)?

Basically then in RMSS the Study spell has no effect on DP cost, just in-game time cost?

Btw, does anyone use A-9.1 and how is it working? Do you find that if players rapidly gain levels (from a say a long chain of events over a short period of time) they have DPs backed up due to no training time?

Regards,
Old Man

[markc]

 I might not allow the study spell to affect DP expenditure just let it affect the time it takes to "study" to solve a problem. It could be like those long nights everyone spent doing math or science problems and in the morning you have the right answer but just do not quite know how you go it.
 As I said above in RM2 DP are a lot more valuable so the effect would be worth more. So I would be very careful and see how the players are using it now and what effects is it having. Are they turning into super sages that is unbalancing? Also remember if the PC's can do it so can the bad guys. If the bad guys have it or just everyday mages how would that change your game world?
MDC

[Nders]

But aren't the RoCoII Sage and Bard the only ones who have access to the study spell? This kinda restricts the wide scale impact it would have, unless Bards and Sages are extremely numerous . I seem to remember the study spell being accompanied by a +25 bonus for skills studied with the use of study spells. Do not remember where I saw it though. A bonus to skills studied would IMO be the best way of dealing with such a matter as both the Sage and Bard have very low costs in lore skills due to their focus on studdying. 

[markc]

 I will go back and read my RoCo 2, unless my last copy has walked away, and see what it says. But what I have tended to find is that things like this can be abused very easily in some games.
 When I tend to think of Sages I think of someone who spends most if not all of the time studying. So IMO the spell would let them study faster and be able to lean more. At the same time the sage would want to study more and not go out "adventuring" as their "adventuring" is studying. But that is just me and you can play it how ever you want.
MDC   

[markc]

 I just went and read the spell and it does not say anything about providing a DP bonus or reduction to Lore skills. It just says you can remember what you read and can read faster. At least that is what I get from page 61 RoCo II section 9.24 Absorb Knowledge.

MDC

BTW; it also says you remember it not understand it. IMO there is a big difference between the two.

MDC

[Old Man]

I just went and read the spell and it does not say anything about providing a DP bonus or reduction to Lore skills. It just says you can remember what you read and can read faster. At least that is what I get from page 61 RoCo II section 9.24 Absorb Knowledge.

MDC

BTW; it also says you remember it not understand it. IMO there is a big difference between the two.

MDC

Yep, content without context is how I described it to my players. But their question was whether the memorization helped either reduce DP cost or reduce downtime calendar time cost to learn skills (does RMSS have down time learning rules outside of 9.1 for DP expediture?).

Currently I am going with the memorization provides random ranks (or specific maps/documents) in memory which can be used for random knowledge checks ("Hey, didn't the village of Hommlet burn in 4322?").

Regards,
Old Man

[markc]

 I only remember RMSS providing a bonus to knowledge checks not any DP reduction. Also just because you can read fast does not mean you undestand the info any better. IMO you still need time to have it work into your brain and for your brain to make sense of it.

 Also it is not memorization IMO but simply storing info in the brain. You look at it and it is there, you can use other spells on the list to organize your photos of book pages but IMO it would be just like carrying a computer with books or a data base stored inside of it. The biggest problem I see is keeping all the info strait and useful.

 So again no I would not allow a DP reduction but a bonus to the skill check as if they had a book to help them reference material. 

Does that help?
MDC

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

So, how does the Bard (or ROCO II Sage) Study spell affect spending DP on Lore/academic skills?

It does not affect the DP costs of any skills. The only thing it affects is the time required.

Would you give a multiplier as if the Bard/caster regularly used a Learn Language *X spell?

The RMC version of the Learn Language spell is based on the RMSS/FRP version, rather than the RM2 version (which only increased speed of learning).

And the Learn Language spell specifically says that you get 2 ranks for each one purchased, where the Study spells do not.

So, no extra ranks for lore skills.

[Old Man]

Rasyr,

Thanks. How does it affect the time required. -10% as was suggested above?

Also, does anyone use the time per rank to learn the skill upon leveling rule? Am curious to see how it works in a fast-paced campaign. 2 hrs per rank for 10-15 ranks a level wouldn't be bad (2-3 days at 8 hrs). Say I am 4th or 5th and learning my 7th rank in 10 skills, I have 60 days to cover...

Regards,
Old Man

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The percentage would be based on how much learning of a rank is book reading and how much is understanding the underlying concepts