Topic: How would you fix the Ranger?

[markc]

Slightly off-topic, but this has always bothered me.  I believe that Rangers were stuffed into the realm of Channeling just because their base lists have so much in common with Animists.  There is nothing intrinsic to the profession which indicates a need for divine sponsorship.

Since the Ranger survives in the wilderness by virtue of his wits and education, I think the realm of mentalism actually makes more sense.  Their powers are very personal in nature.

 Yes I let the Ranger be from any realm as it makes more sense to me.
MDC

[Marc R]

I tend to cut the split between Channeling and Essence as to the control level.

If the Animist is tapping into nature, and can use it without consequence as they see fit. (i.e. nature doesn't require anything of them) then they should be Essence.

If being an Animist places obligations and requirements upon them, then they'd be Channelling.

I dislike it when channeling users are played as if channeling is merely a source of power and authority with no obligations. . .if "Nature" isn't aware of the caster, nor capable of directing or requiring anything from the animist at all, then it's just a force, not a divine aspect, and Essence seems to apply.

[markc]

LM,
 I agree with everything you wrote above.
MDC

[dutch206]

I do know that Shinto priests are considered "unclean" if they come in contact with blood or dead bodies.  That's why all followers of Shinto are buried by Buddhist priests!

[Arioch]

I do know that Shinto priests are considered "unclean" if they come in contact with blood or dead bodies.  That's why all followers of Shinto are buried by Buddhist priests!

Sorry but no, Shinto has funeral rites (and buddhists does not usually bury the dead). The reasons behind the spread of buddhist's funeral rites in Japan are different, and much more complex. 

 

I tend to cut the split between Channeling and Essence as to the control level.

If the Animist is tapping into nature, and can use it without consequence as they see fit. (i.e. nature doesn't require anything of them) then they should be Essence.

If being an Animist places obligations and requirements upon them, then they'd be Channelling.

I dislike it when channeling users are played as if channeling is merely a source of power and authority with no obligations. . .if "Nature" isn't aware of the caster, nor capable of directing or requiring anything from the animist at all, then it's just a force, not a divine aspect, and Essence seems to apply.

Another solution could be creating a new nature-related Realm, to which both Animists and Ranger (and maybe some other professions, like the outrider or the barbarian) belong...

[Nders]

Interesting concept. A form of sub realm for channeling. Kind of like elementalism can be considered a sub realm of essence This could however quickly get out of hand and end up with just too many realms - or sub realms

[Arioch]

Kind of like elementalism can be considered a sub realm of essence

Yes, something like that (you could even push it further and write a nature-based adaptation of elemental corruption fro the F&I).
And yes it could get really out of hand if you decide to use all the sub-realms 

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

So, we need someone to write a "Nature Companion", heh? 

[Arioch]

So, we need someone to write a "Nature Companion", heh? 

Don't look at me, though! 

[rdanhenry]

Yes, we needs more Companions:

Nature Companion - Because tree-hugging needs 96 pages of rules.
Mature Companion - Adventuring in your later years.
Au Naturel Companion - In depth discussion of advantages and disadvantages of full out AT-1.
Rural Companion - When you're close to the land, but not into the "wilderness".
Urban Companion - Equal time for city folk! Your Urban Ranger knows the ways of rats and pigeons and how to hide in alleys.
Suburban Companion - Split the difference and play a Neatly Mowed Lawn Ranger.
Mental List Companion - Reminders of all the things your character needs to think about, from equipment to purchase to hireling expendibility rankings.
Sense Companion - Because Taste isn't one sense, it is five that happen to live on same tongue! Perception skills finally get the detail they deserve.
Channel Companion - Exploring and constructing waterways. Hey, castles got their own book and they don't even take you anywhere!
Our Cane Companion - When you're too old for the Mature Companion.

[kevinmccollum]

I had to give a laugh point to that one.

[chook]

Changing which Realm of magic the Ranger is allocated to doesn't really change them greatly though.  In my mind all it means is erasing Channeling and writing Essence or Mentalism in it's place.  Yes it would certainly change the backstory or fluff aspects of the character (which are important from the roleplaying aspect) but there is very little mechanical change.  I have always been fairly open to letting a playing change what Realm their character utilises as I see it being more a story element than a purely mechanical element.

Are there particular aspects that you feel the profession is underpowered or is it more of an across the board issue?

[markc]

 IMO I think the spells are a little weak but I am looking into maybe re-writing them or adding spells into some spots as old spells.
MDC

[pastaav]

I think the realm actually matters quite a bit. Channeling as a realm is powerful with all the healing, on the other hand it will cost a fortune for Ranger to take the closed lists needed for dealing with any serious injury. If we limit us ourselves to more reasonably costed open lists the channeling is a weak realm compared to the others. Likewise the Ranger spells fail to have really useful spell at low level. Those few that are actually useful will happen so rarely in regular play that the group with cause can argue that the GM custom fit the encounter to fit the ranger spells.

The problem with the ranger is basically this...no good spells until later and the rather high DP costs will mean the ranger does not have skills to compensate with. It is not like the profession is broken or lack options at high level, but on the way there the player who take Ranger suffer more than other semis.

[Arioch]

The problem with the ranger is basically this...no good spells until later and the rather high DP costs will mean the ranger does not have skills to compensate with. It is not like the profession is broken or lack options at high level, but on the way there the player who take Ranger suffer more than other semis.

Yeah, I think pastaav here nailed down the problem.


(plus, the disney's cartoon style summoning spells of the ranger at low levels have a quite hilarious effect imho:
Player: "behold! I will now summon nourshment for us all!"
GM: "a fluffy white bunny appears from the woods, carrying raspberries in his mouth...")

[Nders]

Changing which Realm of magic the Ranger is allocated to doesn't really change them greatly though.  In my mind all it means is erasing Channeling and writing Essence or Mentalism in it's place.

Not so. realms and cost have a great deal to do with each other. moving a profession from channeling to essence should increase his armor cost by 1, at least, and reduce his costs in purely magical skills like attunement and runes Going mentalism should have an effect on meditation and in some cases adrenal moves. Armor is also cheaper to mentalism users than it is for essence.

 

[chook]

I agree with what you are saying Nders but I am not so sure it would apply in all cases.  Certainly if you were being holistic about the change then you would need to adjust the skills around the change in Realm.  I am not so sure that it would be entirely required though.  Imagine a player saying that they wanted to portray a Ranger that didn't draw their magical energy from a nature deity (Chanelling) but drew it from nature all around (Essence).  To me there is not really that much difference in philosophy except that the explanation of where the magic comes from fits the different Realm more correctly.  Yes, taking that big picture holistic approach then the Ranger should probably be better at Attunement, Runes, etc. but there is also the point that the development cost of skills not only comes from the Realm of magic a character taps but their Profession as well (e.g. a Rogue who makes Essence his Realm does not necessarily become good at the aforementioned skills).

[Nders]

But the thing is that the systematics behind the classes and realms has a certain logic to it that permeates the whole concept of rolemaster and there is a close connection between what realm you use your costs and the skillgrid in general. Certain things go together so to speak and therefore you cannot simply, if you care to stay within the originally intended systematics, just change the realm without changing certain other things as well. Certainly it is easier to just change the realm and leave it at that and if you want to keep it simple this could be the way to do it - but then again if you wanted it simple then why bother changing the realm to begin with?

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Yes, taking that big picture holistic approach then the Ranger should probably be better at Attunement, Runes, etc. but there is also the point that the development cost of skills not only comes from the Realm of magic a character taps but their Profession as well (e.g. a Rogue who makes Essence his Realm does not necessarily become good at the aforementioned skills).

Some skills cost are logically tied to the Realm, though. For instance, Channelling users have a low cost in Channelling because, obviously, they're used to channel magical powers (since it's what they naturally do with their god). The same way, armours encumbering Essence users, such professions don't put a focus in training in them, resulting in high cost; the same way, Channelling users have a low cost for leather (organic) armours but high costs for metallic (inorganic) armours.

While not personally tying myself to Realms in my games (i.e. any profession can be of any Realm), I'd agree with Nders that merely switching it without changing skill costs isn't the best thing to do.

[rdanhenry]

At a minimum, a Mentalism-based Ranger should have Channeling restricted and Heavy Armor costs lowered. He'd be more powerful, as an armored spell-caster, subtle spell-caster, and better Open lists available. He would also be closer to that famous Ranger in the famous book, who often does things that could be interpreted as Mentalist spell-casting, but doesn't go around reciting spells so much. This would be another method to slightly upgrade the Ranger, if you think he needs it.