Author Topic: New professions  (Read 8739 times)

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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: New professions
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2009, 09:11:56 AM »
This is by far the most interesting profession you have yet posted Olf. There does however seem to be the same powerproblem that there was with the first ones you created only with the hunterkiller the costs are also tweaked to an all time low for a semi spell user. Could you try to explain why your classes are so powerful and how pure arms classes fare in your campaigns i.e. if they are compensated in any ways etc.
First, power is a relative matter and balance is IMO a ridiculous consideration.
Complaining that a spell list is too powerful is similar to saying how a gun is too powerful compared to a sword and shouldn't exist, or that the atomic bomb is unbalanced compared to the conventional missiles and shouldn't exist. Of course, it's unbalanced: it's the very purpose of creating new technologies, including weapons, creating ones more powerful than the previous. At last, the creation of a tech./weapon doesn't automatically cancel the usefulness or existence of the previous ones.
Complaining that a profession is too powerful (and shouldn't exist) is similar to complaining that being a nobleman in medieval times is so much better than being a commoner. The answer is 'yes', it is, yet it did and should exist.
I create my professions according to concepts; as long as a concept is valid to the world, the profession is valid --and "raw power" isn't what determines whether a concept is valid or not.

There are more IMO to roleplay and usefulness than raw written abilities, and when I did have players complaining about another player's being "too powerful" or "too useless", it never had been because of their respective professions, but of the mentioned player's way of playing his character. The most powerful character I ever had in a (sci-fi) game was a mere student (whereas the others were secret agent, special police enforcer, experienced bounty hunter, etc.) with close to zero skill (he was of the slacking off type and never really studied...) but with close to unlimited money, a lot of relationship, and access to virtually anything because he was the single son of the owner of the most powerful corporate of the world.

As for pure arms professions, they exist and are by large the most common encountered professions by the mere fact it's easier (in every way: easier to learn, less expensive to become [study of magic is expensive!], easier to find tools of trade, easier to be accepted [i.e. anyone can become one, without much requirement as far as social class, physical or mental attributes, money, etc. are concerned). Now, if you question was about why would a player play a pure arms rather than a spell caster, as my merchant PC said to the Noble-Warrior: "Sure, you have muscles BUT I HAVE MONEY! That, and I prefer not to be hurt every time there's a fight."

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Also I think you are too kind when allowing essence users access to concussion ways as they thereby get aces to actual functional healing which is the one drawback of essence.
You later answered your own question.
I explain my concept of magic in my world forums but, in a nutshell, I don't classify spell lists by realms, but merely by learning difficulty (so you have open, closed, base and "arcane") with the realm of a spellcaster being the indication of how he gains his magical energy, not of what he can do.

That being said, for the purpose of posting here, I assigned a realm to my profession but the Fire Mage can actually be an Essence spellcaster, a Channeling spellcaster, a Mentalism spellcaster, an Elementalist spellcaster, or an hybrid spellcaster, just all the same.

Let me just mention that I really like your idea and it seems to me to be a nice piece of work before I go on :)
Thanks. Does that mean I shall get to see your own creations? ;)

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Mana currents is an issue to me as well as it is not only SO poorly written and balanced that it is useless as a serious addition to the spell repertoire the attack tables are also full of flaws and typos and thus it was only in use for a few years before it was cast aside.

 I know this is a lot but could you possible design a new list around the spells you invented yourself without the use of the lightning ball attacktable?
...it's easier to rewrite the table, what I did.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 09:18:34 AM by OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol »
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline thrud

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Re: New professions
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2009, 09:41:31 AM »
Is there a way of posting pdf's? I have an Excell sheet and refuse to cruch the numbers manually just for a post...

Offline Arioch

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Re: New professions
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2009, 12:20:26 PM »
Complaining that a spell list is too powerful is similar to saying how a gun is too powerful compared to a sword

Yes, that's a good comparison: the spread of swords in modern warfare clearly shows what are the effects of introducing new, more powerful professions/spells/whatever. The older, less powerful ones will disappear.
This is very good, if you want to make that thing predominant in your game (for example, if I want to encourage people to play nobles, it makes sense to give to the "noble" profession more advantages than any other profession). However, if you want to let players' choices as open as possible, it's extremely counter-productive (if I give lots of advantages to the "noble" profession and none to the "peasant" profession, I shouldn't wonder why the 90% of players choose to play a noble).
It all depends on your style of play.  ;)
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: New professions
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2009, 12:36:06 PM »
Yes, that's a good comparison: the spread of swords in modern warfare clearly shows what are the effects of introducing new, more powerful professions/spells/whatever. The older, less powerful ones will disappear.
With time, yes. And? It doesn't mean that you should not introduced "new, more powerful professions/spells/whatever". In fact, it shows you should because it's how the world works. It's the principle of evolution.
In a normal world, there should be "professions/spells/whatever" more "powerful" than others; it's a sign the world is evolving.

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This is very good, if you want to make that thing predominant in your game (for example, if I want to encourage people to play nobles, it makes sense to give to the "noble" profession more advantages than any other profession). However, if you want to let players' choices as open as possible, it's extremely counter-productive (if I give lots of advantages to the "noble" profession and none to the "peasant" profession, I shouldn't wonder why the 90% of players choose to play a noble).
All the contrary, it's extremely open because it's how the world is and should be.
Or are you telling me that, in your world, nobles are as "powerful" as commoners, who are as "powerful" as serfs, themselves as "powerful" as slaves because otherwise it'd be counter-productive? There's a reason why nobles were considered "privileged", after all: because they had more "advantages" than commoners.

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It all depends on your style of play.
No, it depends on how realistic your world is.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Nders

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Re: New professions
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2009, 01:05:07 PM »
this thread really was not for discussing balancing issues and I apologise for bringing it up

Offline kevinmccollum

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Re: New professions
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2009, 07:36:33 PM »
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There are more IMO to roleplay and usefulness than raw written abilities

If that is the case, then it wouldn't hurt to increase a few of the costs. Every one of the classes presented is much more powerful than any core class. And this isn't about missiles, guns vs swords, it is about a roleplaying game. If you never want to see a basic fighter or magician in your game, that is fine. It IS about style of play.

Offline markc

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Re: New professions
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2009, 08:05:18 PM »
 Also if it does not fit your game you can bump up or down the skill costs and sub spell lists. IMO this is very common as I think there may not be two RM games alike. Especially in the RM2/C/X line.
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Offline Arioch

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Re: New professions
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2009, 02:48:13 AM »
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It doesn't mean that you should not introduced

And I've not said that they should not be introduced. On the contrary, I've said that introducing them is a very good idea, if you want to encourage to play certain professions rather than others.

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No, it depends on how realistic your world is.

In many games I've played, this kind of "realism" was secondary, so it really depends on what you think is important in the game.
Note that I'm not saying that some styles of play are better than others or that choosing to simulate reality is wrong! I'm simply saying that introducing unbalanced options in a game will have the consequences I've described in my above post, and that's why they do not fit every style of play.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: New professions
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2009, 06:16:35 AM »
Well, okay, yes, my custom professions were made for my game, my players, and my world. It doesn't fit yours? Then, I guess there was no need for me to post them (even when considering I was the only one who did in this thread), and no need to post more. Not until I create professions that would fit every single RM2/C GM's game of the world, it seems.

Have a good day, people.

Geez, really.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Arioch

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Re: New professions
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2009, 04:58:31 AM »
I'm sorry you've taken my posts as a personal offense, I was trying to do some constructive criticism there, but please ignore what I've said if you don't like them.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: New professions
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2009, 06:12:30 PM »
*Shrugs*
I'm more disheartened than being offended, really.

Posting my custom professions took me literally hours, between formatting my posts for the forums, formatting my spell lists and making them more friendly (some were mere notepad notes, some were handwriting annotations on pieces of paper since they were for my personal use, etc.). While I'm not fishing for gratitude, if people just don't consider my posts useful or appropriate, well, there's no reason for me to spend more hours posting them, if only because I have better matters to do during that time.

As for "constructive criticism", I'm sorry to say so but they were custom professions made for my game, my players, and my world, as it was requested in this thread. Do you expect that, if people other than myself post here, each, any and all professions posted would be suitable to each, any and all other GMs, games and worlds, when the thread asks them to post the professions they created for their games, their players and their world? Asking for suggestions to tweak them for your game (and mayhap giving suggestions) may be "constructive criticism", but complaining they're not "right" because they're not appropriate for yours isn't, IMO.

I assumed every GM reading this thread for interesting ideas and professions would be able to understand he may have to tweak them to his own world and game, and discard the ones not appropriate. Having people basically saying to my face that my classes are useless and wrong, because they're "too powerful" for their game and world, and that I should then revisit them for my game and world (where they fit as they are, since they were customized for it), and even explaining why I should do so, wasn't the reaction I expected.

So, yeah, whatever. If no one has any use for them, then I have no reason to spend time posting more custom professions.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 06:18:59 PM by OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol »
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline markc

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Re: New professions
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2009, 06:49:38 PM »
 I can say that I for one like the spell lists and will be looking them over for my RMSS game. As to the professions they do give ma a basic idea of whats out there and what people want in there home games. Also IMO it shows other GM's how they can manipulate the RM2/C/X base professions to get get an idea into there game.

 Please keep posting them. Also I know in the future you will like having you hand notes in electronic format.
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Offline Marc R

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Re: New professions
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2009, 08:15:57 PM »
There is really no abstract, cross all games balance. . ..I like if possible to keep a much control in the GM's hands, and what would be too weak in one game is too strong in another.

If there was some set of ratings like "Tournament Rules HARP" that would be a different matter, but a profession is only out of balance if it's out of balance in context to the game it's in.

OLF . . .perhaps a bit too strong for some people's games, but that doesn't seem to be stopping people playing at a higher power levels from liking them. . . .
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Offline thrud

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Re: New professions
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2009, 11:00:50 AM »
Bah, I grow so tired when people start tossing about words like overpowered and such.
It would have to be some pretty awful unbalances to break the game.
Keep up the good work OLF.
It may not be my personal cup of tea but on the other hand I'm working in the exact opposit direction at the moment. Streamlining and personalisation for each and every player. I'll be posting some preliminary stuff as soon as I find a suitable webstorage for my pdfs.

Offline Wōdwulf Seaxaning

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Re: New professions
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2009, 03:56:39 PM »
I agree with Thrud ..I hope OLF reconsiders posting more of his/her work in this thread if only so I can glean some inspiration for customizing professions for my world. Great stuff , the only complaint is I don't have easy access to the various RMCos to be able use them myself.
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Offline Nders

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Re: New professions
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2009, 08:32:28 AM »
Get them Lucy as fast as you can! Particularly RoCo I and II are a must III is pretty cool too :D
Rolemaster just isn't the same without them.

Offline Wōdwulf Seaxaning

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Re: New professions
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 06:43:48 PM »
If I have the money when I can find them. I'll be getting RCoI PDF when I can afford to .
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Offline Nders

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Re: New professions
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2009, 11:09:50 AM »
try amazon in the US. They have some of the old companions now and then.

Offline markc

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Re: New professions
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2009, 12:31:03 PM »
If I have the money when I can find them. I'll be getting RCoI PDF when I can afford to .
Also try Powles City of Books as they have some downtown.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: New professions
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2009, 07:49:00 PM »
(...)
(sorry, wrong post)
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.