Topic: Cleric's Holy Symbol: To be held in hand or worn?

[Ecthelion]

When a Cleric wants to gain the benefits of his Holy Symbol, does he have to hold the Holy Symbol in his hand or would it be sufficient if he e.g. wears it around his neck? Any official statement? Thanks

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

It could be either. It depends on the symbol itself. Some are likely to be better suited to be worn than held.

[Ecthelion]

OK, thanks

[munchy]

I would rule that if it releases a permanent effect such as an aura or something similar wearing would be enough as with the PP adder and Spell adder stuff, would make it too confusing if he was to hold it in his hand for that - pendant is usually one slot as an equipment item if you want to use the computer games example.
If the holy symbol allows a powerful spell to be used once a day or so I would have the cleric hold or at least touch it with his hand(s) to utilise that power.

Anyhow, so, in essence the same answer as Rasyr gave. 

[Right Wing Wacko]

As long as the symbol is displayed in some manner, I usually don't worry about it. If the PC is in a situation where displaying the symbol could be dangerous... well, then it gets fun!

Anyone experiment with religions with NO symbols? or symbols that are actually items?

[jasonbrisbane]

I believe that we play that the Holy Symbol  can be worn but must be visible to be used...
SO outside the robes is fine.... After all, a Cleric is proud of his/her god/goddess and doesnt shy away from presenting the symbol of the god...

[kreider204]

I believe that we play that the Holy Symbol  can be worn but must be visible to be used...
SO outside the robes is fine.... After all, a Cleric is proud of his/her god/goddess and doesnt shy away from presenting the symbol of the god...

Indeed, though there might be social situations in which they need to hide their identity / affiliation . . . 

[jolt]

Anyone experiment with religions with NO symbols? or symbols that are actually items?

I had a few religions where the priestly vestments were considered the holy symbol.  I have trouble imagining a religion that wouldn't want a symbol of some kind; especially in the polytheistic/pantheistic seetings that most fantasy game worlds employ.

jolt

[Right Wing Wacko]

Anyone experiment with religions with NO symbols? or symbols that are actually items?

I had a few religions where the priestly vestments were considered the holy symbol.  I have trouble imagining a religion that wouldn't want a symbol of some kind; especially in the polytheistic/pantheistic seetings that most fantasy game worlds employ.

jolt

Perhaps a secret religion? One that worships power and authority rather than a god? One that likes to work "behind the scenes" and doesn't want anybody to believe in them?

I dunno, I was just shooting out random thoughts...

[jolt]

I would think a secret religion would be more in need of a symbol as a way of identifying themselves to other members if if the symbol means nothing to anyone else. 

It's an interesting idea of having a religion that would seek no worship and would have no (or little) interest in gaining converts.  Very Illuminati-esque.  I still think there's be some kind of symbol that would have internal meaning to those involved even if to no one else but it does create some interesting thoughts...

jolt

[Karizma]

Symbolism is a part of human nature.  Language is proof of that (words symbolize meanings), so it only makes sense that everything has a "symbol" of some sort.

But as for religions, I think it's even MORE important to use symbols because you don't have a tangible deity to point to.  You have to come up with a name (symbol) for the deity, and for teaching those who don't read, you can come up with an icon.  At the same time, I think it's perfectly acceptable to say that vestments can be an adequate symbol.

A god of the harvest might be symbolized by something that has to do with harvest, like a sickle.  A god of rain? Water drop.  A god of chaos? Just scrawl a jagged, asymmetric figure.

[masque1223]

Anyone experiment with ... symbols that are actually items?

I have a Mablung dwarf in my Cyradon campaign, he's a cleric of a forge god.  His warhammer is his holy symbol.

[jasonbrisbane]

I believe that we play that the Holy Symbol  can be worn but must be visible to be used...
SO outside the robes is fine.... After all, a Cleric is proud of his/her god/goddess and doesnt shy away from presenting the symbol of the god...

Indeed, though there might be social situations in which they need to hide their identity / affiliation . . . 

AAH! But thats why they become clerics... for the challenges in a "modern" world! 

[jasonbrisbane]

Actually your right though...

I remember the HARN religious pantheon and some religions are proscribed in different kingdoms and so any worshippers there would be secret clerics/worhippers....

[Right Wing Wacko]

I have a Mablung dwarf in my Cyradon campaign, he's a cleric of a forge god.  His warhammer is his holy symbol.

Cool!

[Right Wing Wacko]

Symbolism is a part of human nature.  Language is proof of that (words symbolize meanings), so it only makes sense that everything has a "symbol" of some sort.

But as for religions, I think it's even MORE important to use symbols because you don't have a tangible deity to point to.  You have to come up with a name (symbol) for the deity, and for teaching those who don't read, you can come up with an icon.  At the same time, I think it's perfectly acceptable to say that vestments can be an adequate symbol.

Maybe.
But I do not find it out of the ordinary to create religions with no symbology. At least in my gaming world...

[Uriel]

Er...getting back on subject...

I grant a bonus if the Symbol is presented boldly ( Carried, thrust at the Undead, as opposed to being worn). In D20,it was a +2 bonus to the Turn attempt.
In HARP...It hasn't come up yet, as my party is 2 Adventurers, a Shadow Blade, a Beast Master and a Warrior Mage. Perhaps a misc bonus of +10 to 15 for casting certain (Turn) spells? Something that would make the Roleplayers feel that their efforts (I have had guys who would act out the Turn, to great entertainment value) were appreciated. This is in line with non-magical quality equipment, for example.


Uriel

[Uriel]

And derailed Off-Topic...sort of.

I just watched my favorite Vampire movie (Fearless Vampire Killers), and in one scene, the two hapless heroes cross greatswords to keep a pack of Vampires at bay, while they escape.

What are folks' thoughts on non Clerics being able to get some effect from a Holt Symbol? It seems that RPGs never address this, and every Vampire movie has normal folks wearing a cross...We all know the scene where the Vampire goes for the girl's neck, then moves aside her clothes, to see a cross, and recoils...

So, what effect should a Holy Symbol have for a non-Cleric?



-Uriel

[Ecthelion]

So, what effect should a Holy Symbol have for a non-Cleric?

From a pure rules POV it is relatively easy: Holy Symbol is a spell that creates a personalized Holy Symbol which gives bonuses for the caster alone (see the spell description). So the Holy Symbol is useless for others. Perhaps a Thaumaturge can create a Holy Symbol which is usable not only for a specific person? In that case the symbol created that way could be used equally by Clerics and non Clerics.

[Right Wing Wacko]

If you want non-priest types to have abilities like that, the symbol doesn't necessarily have to be "holy". Perhaps the symbol itself holds power or it draws power from those who believe in its power...