Topic: HARP Combat

[Zavala]

Hello,

     I am running a group of experienced and new players through Ptolus and I am using the HARP system.  I am wondering what others think about the Core Combat rules, the rules in Martial Law, and the Rules in Hack n Slash.  What is good about each and which do you prefer?  What problems have occurred with each option.  Currently here is the rundown of the players I have:

Human Vivamancer
Human Elementalist
Lizardfolk Mage
Centaur Ranger
Cherubim Elf Shadowblade
Cherubim Elf Warrior Mage

Any thoughts?

[janpmueller]

Hi Zavala,

I have tried the Core Combat Rules as well as Hack n Slash with my casual gaming group (at least 2 of which don't want to be bothered too much with the rules). I started out with the core rules, because I like combats simple, and I'm more than willing to sacrifice some realism for swift action in combat.
Somehow, though, combat was not quite as exciting as I had hoped for. We rolled, and during calculation on wether someone hit his opponent, suspense was lost.
I checked out the HnS rules then, and planned to use them with the optional rule of a second roll. This second roll, after determining wether you've hit, gave a lot of excitement back (I used to play rolemaster, and knew if from there: "Okay, that wasn't too bad an attack, now please, give me a good critical!").

I gave every player the critical tables they need, and now they happily roll their criticals
By the way, I modified the tables in two signifcant ways:

• Less lethal results. I let the table go up to 180 instead of 150 by having increments of six (instead of 5).
• Less letters. I got rid of single letters corresponding to table rows, and instead put in letters from A to F. These give a malus or bonus to the second roll.

These modifications, I'm told, are similar to MERP (which I've never played), and I'm very happy with how it plays out. If you're interested in that option, PM me. If not, I think I'd still recommend HnS: It's quick and simple to play with (everything in 1 table), but still has a lot more (optional) detail than the core rules.

Jan

[jurasketu]

Funny, Jan, how you mentioned MERP, that's how I found HARP - looking for MERP.

Zavala-

I've played all three versions of the HARP combat rules. In my opinion, Martial Law requires way too much thinking for two second rounds (admittedly I use Oatmeal for Brains so more savvy players and GMs may have better success). The Core Rules don't have quite the tension of possible sudden death that I like. The best you can do on a Medium attack is stun unless you open-end or spend 20 OB on PowerStrike making the chances of actually getting over 100 pretty low unless you have a huge OB. Its hard for your best fighter to save the day if he/she has to take 3-4 rounds to kill every opponent despite have a huge OB advantage.

So, I heartily recommend HackNSlash. It bloody. Its messy. Characters and bad guys bleeding all over the table, charts, books and carpets. It has the suspense and fear that should come with "real" combat. If I wanted to play chess, I would play D & D. Then again, you'll need to have plenty of healing and defensive spells standing by or it could get ugly.

And Jan is right, in all ICE games, its always been smart for the GM to let players run their own critical charts. If you have enough players, make them look up all criticals for the GM for good measure.

Robin

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I was thinking of taking the Combat tables from RM Express and converting them for use with HARP as a slightly less lethal alternative.

Would there be interest in that if I put it into an issue of HARPer's Bazaar?

[Right Wing Wacko]

I would recommend not to do it Tim for the following reasons...
1) There are already 3 different combat systems for HARP
2) Time may be better spent on other HARP products...

Just my opinion and it doen't mean much

[Alwyn]

Rasyr,

I for one would be interested in those tables from RME for HARP.

[Thos]

I was thinking of taking the Combat tables from RM Express and converting them for use with HARP as a slightly less lethal alternative.

Would there be interest in that if I put it into an issue of HARPer's Bazaar?

If it isn't too time consuming, I say go for it. I'd love to see it. There can never be too many options!

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

An hour, maybe two at tops is all it would likely take. The weapon statistics table would be the longest thing to do..

[Zavala]

An hour, maybe two at tops is all it would likely take. The weapon statistics table would be the longest thing to do..

Hmm, how soon is the next issue of the Bazaar going to be ready for purchase and download?  BTW Guys, I really appreciate the advice.  This is actually the first game I have ran (Rolemaster 2nd, RMSS, RMFRP,) that didn't have a fighter in it...mostly casters.  Of course half of them took Minor Healing.  Now my player that has the Vivamancer is thinking on changing his character to Cleric instead.  I for one would love to see another option to combat, gotta love HARP when it comes to flexibility.

Z

[drsmitty]

I would also like to see another option, as long as it remains simple and coherent. 

I am getting ready to GM my fist HARP session in two weeks.  I have not yet decided which system to use, and was even thinking about posing the same question to this forum that Zavala did here.  I like the look of HnS, and definitely want at least the potential for immediate death, but I also don't want combat to resort to some sort of D&D type healing potion keg party.

[janpmueller]

Options are always good! Go for it, Rasyr!
I do agree with the warning post by Right Wing Wacko - too many "official" options might overtax new players, but I feel no harm can be done with a new option in the Bazaar.
Are there any numbers concerning the number of players using which combat system? From what I've read in the forums lately, Martial Law seems to be not so heavily used, but I might err.

Jan

[Alwyn]

Rasyr,

I do have one question about the RME tables you might use for HARP.  Are they an abbreviated version of the RMC tables, or full size (A B C D E type crits)?  Or, are they similar to the old MERP combat tables?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The are similar to the old MERP tables

[Alwyn]

Cool, thanks.   

[Spellsinger]

Off Topic: Where can I find the Cherubim or Centaur stats?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Centaur --
    Monster Stats - HARP page 148
    Description -- HARP page 151
    Racial Stats - HARP page 156

Cherubim -- HARP doesn't have a monster called Cherubim. Not even sure what a Cherubim might be (though the name sounds angelic -- in which case, the closest you would come for an existing HARP creature is the Devi, but that is likely to be much more powerful if the Cherubim is a PC race)

Post a description of the race (including any abilities) and we can help you create a HARP version.

[Zavala]

The Cherubim Elf is a winged elf, so for my game I used the Volar from the HARPer's Bazaar #3.  For more information on the races, do a web search for Ptolus and download the free PDF players guide.

Z

[Zavala]

Also thanks for the suggestions, I used Hack and Slash for my game on Saturday, the players were a little taken back to the deadliness of combat but loved it at the same time.  Almost lost a player due to blood loss but those fate points saved her a$$.

Z

[janpmueller]

Yeeha! Exciting combats! (How much fun can it get when you can't die? Speakin roleplay, of course).
Glad HnS worked out okay. I repeat my offer to send the modified tables (but also know that waiting for Tim's version that is similar to MERP might be a better idea).

Jan

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The Cherubim Elf is a winged elf, so for my game I used the Volar from the HARPer's Bazaar #3.  For more information on the races, do a web search for Ptolus and download the free PDF players guide.

Ahh.. Yeah, then the Volar's stats would, for the most part, work. Just change the starting age and lifespan accordingly, along with the description.