Topic: movemeent rule question

[assur]

I am a bit confused by movement rules, I post an example and ask if it is correct.

Oin and Goin both 60% encumbered and limited to jog pace.

Oin expends 1 AP to move her BMR (20') in the first phase, expends 1 AP to move her BMR (20') again in the second phase, expends 1 AP to melee in the third phase and 1 AP to melee in the fourth phase; then attack at -50 for spending 2 AP. He couldn't have expend 1 AP to move in the third phase because he moved double is BMR (40'): 20' in the first and 20' in the second phase and he is limited to a jog pace.

Oin could have moved 10' per phase in all four phase or 15' in the first two phases and 5' in the last two phases or any combination whose total is not more than 40' round or 20' for phase?

Goin expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the first phase, expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the second phase, expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the third phase, expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the fourth phase; then attack at -50 for the jog pace.

[assur]

Goin can't move more than 10" for phase because he is limited to jog pace for phase (half BMR) ?
IBoth move at the same pace  but move at different rates for phase: Oin up to bmr for phase,  Goin up to half bmr for phase?

[jdale]

Oin expends 1 AP to move her BMR (20') in the first phase, expends 1 AP to move her BMR (20') again in the second phase, expends 1 AP to melee in the third phase and 1 AP to melee in the fourth phase; then attack at -50 for spending 2 AP. He couldn't have expend 1 AP to move in the third phase because he moved double is BMR (40'): 20' in the first and 20' in the second phase and he is limited to a jog pace.

That's fine exactly as you have it. This is using AP for movement, and then attacking with the remaining AP.

Goin expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the first phase, expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the second phase, expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the third phase, expends 1 AP to melee and move at a jog pace 10' (half his BMR of 20') in the fourth phase; then attack at -50 for the jog pace.

Also correct. This is moving while acting, incurring a pace penalty instead of an AP cost.

It's useful to note that there is the same amount of movement in each case (40' total) and the same penalty (-50). So in many cases it doesn't matter which way you choose to handle this, by design they work out the same.

However, Goin can apply any Footwork skill he may have to offset the -50 pace penalty. Oin cannot, because Footwork doesn't offset the penalty for making a 2 AP attack. So if you have Footwork, you may be better off moving while attacking.

That might seem a little odd but consider this alternative scenario:

Oin stands in place and makes a 2 AP attack during phases 1 and 2. Then in phase 3 he spends 1 AP to move 20', and in phase 4 he spends his last AP to move another 20'. In this case, although he's doing the same combination of things as in your example, tactically it's an important difference that he's running away after attacking. It would not make sense to allow Footwork to help you attack in place and then run away afterwards.

[assur]

I found weird that iin a phase i(at the same pace) f u take a move action u move more feet than if u take an action and move.
But this is what the rules mean to be?

[Hurin]

I found weird that iin a phase i(at the same pace) f u take a move action u move more feet than if u take an action and move.
But this is what the rules mean to be?

My advice is you choose either the 'pace penalty' way of doing movement, or the 'pay-AP-to-move' way, but do not combine them. The anomaly is there only because you are using to different methods. They are not entirely different, and in most cases they get to the same result, but there is a difference in this scenario, which is why I think it is best not to combine them.

[Amano]

I found weird that iin a phase i(at the same pace) f u take a move action u move more feet than if u take an action and move.
But this is what the rules mean to be?

The problem is that pace limits are actually limits on the total movement over the round, rather than limits on pace. A character with 20 BMR, limited to jog pace, is actually limited to 40’ movement over the round but can achieve this by sprinting for two phases if they like.

I don’t like this either but yes, it is what the rules mean to be. It does work out to be pretty similar over all and probably isn’t a big deal for most people but I had to change it for my last game.

[Hurin]

If you really want, you can just calculate maximum speed in terms of feet/phase (rather than per round).

When Goin spends 1 AP to move 20' in phase I, he is not moving at 1x pace. He is moving at 4x pace, at least for that phase, because if he moves at the same rate for all 4 action phases, he will literally be at 4x pace.

So, if you really want to integrate the systems in a phased round, you could recalculate BMR to be per phase rather than round. In that case, Goin's 'BMR' is now 5'. That's the distance he would move in one phase at 1x pace.

That makes the systems easier to conceptualize and harmonize. The only thing that really differs now is the way Footwork works. It doesn't really work in a 'pay-AP-to-move' environment. So, this is why I say it is best that groups decide which system they like best and stick with just one.

[assur]

If you really want, you can just calculate maximum speed in terms of feet/phase (rather than per round).

When Goin spends 1 AP to move 20' in phase I, he is not moving at 1x pace. He is moving at 4x pace, at least for that phase, because if he moves at the same rate for all 4 action phases, he will literally be at 4x pace.

So, if you really want to integrate the systems in a phased round, you could recalculate BMR to be per phase rather than round. In that case, Goin's 'BMR' is now 5'. That's the distance he would move in one phase at 1x pace.

That makes the systems easier to conceptualize and harmonize. The only thing that really differs now is the way Footwork works. It doesn't really work in a 'pay-AP-to-move' environment. So, this is why I say it is best that groups decide which system they like best and stick with just one.

it look like  a good solution

[assur]

I found weird that iin a phase i(at the same pace) f u take a move action u move more feet than if u take an action and move.
But this is what the rules mean to be?

The problem is that pace limits are actually limits on the total movement over the round, rather than limits on pace. A character with 20 BMR, limited to jog pace, is actually limited to 40’ movement over the round but can achieve this by sprinting for two phases if they like.

I don’t like this either but yes, it is what the rules mean to be. It does work out to be pretty similar over all and probably isn’t a big deal for most people but I had to change it for my last game.

Load limit only feet for round? don't limit the pace per phase?
If I have a jog pace limit due to load and a BMR of 20' I can move at a run pace (15') in phase one and two and 10' in phase 3 for a total of 40' feet in the round?

[Hurin]

A general explanation before I answer your specific questions, Assur. The general point is that in the RMU beta there was some discussion of tracking acceleration/deceleration and momentum phase-by-phase, but any such system significantly complicates movement. This is why no RPG that I know of (definitely not the big ones like D&D and Pathfinder and Cthulhu) tracks acceleration or momentum.

This is not to say that you can't; in fact, several options were advanced in beta (the discussions are still there in the beta boards I think). But they all do complicate the game beyond what was seen as necessary.

Load limit only feet for round? don't limit the pace per phase?

The max pace is expressed in pace, which works in both round and phase. To use it per phase, again, you can start by converting BMR from 'per round' to 'per phase'. In the example above, that gave Goin a movement rate of 5'/phase. If his max pace were 3x, that would be 15'/phase maximum movement.

If I have a jog pace limit due to load and a BMR of 20' I can move at a run pace (15') in phase one and two and 10' in phase 3 for a total of 40' feet in the round?

I'm not sure what the default rules are because I use the fast round and 'pay-AP-to-move' exclusively. If you are using those rules, the answer to your question is yes.

If on the other hand you are using the 'incur movement penalties to move' option, then I THINK (someone correct me if I am wrong), then the answer is no, because moving 15' in one phase is 3x pace.

[jdale]

I found weird that iin a phase i(at the same pace) f u take a move action u move more feet than if u take an action and move.
But this is what the rules mean to be?

The idea that you can dash for 1.25 seconds and then stop and fight as if standing still is a simplification for playability. Combat is chaotic and unpredictable, that we even try to meter it out in fixed time intervals is not really an accurate representation. In practice the actions in each phase would likely be bleeding into each other. But those fixed time intervals are much easier to adjudicate.

What you can achieve in a round is the same either way, that's the important thing.