Topic: Resurrection

[dren77]

ok, a player is decapitated. one player believes that major healing scaled to heal all damage and then a casting of lifegiving will cure. As GM i have a hard time with this. I know it's a fantasy game but it seems that if any death can be healed where is the sense of risk? what are your thoughts

[Thom @ ICE]

Is it possible? Yes, I believe it is - but heal all damage is not sufficient scaling. I would require:
Heal All Damage
Heal Broken/Shattered Bones
Heal Nerve Damage
For a total of 33 PP cost (4+29) which has a huge negative to attempt.

I would then require Lifegiving with the heal all life-threatening  as well for a total of 28PP cost (18+10) for another high negative spell casting.

Nicholas could probably give you a more official response.

[Bruce]

Wow decapitated!
To be honest in all my years of playing Rolemaster then HARP I don't think I ever received a decapitation result on a player character.

I have received death results and to be honest, I can only remember one time where the party actually had the means to bring the character back.
I don't remember if they did or not. It was a long time ago, in a galaxy far.... never mind.

Bruce

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

ok, a player is decapitated. one player believes that major healing scaled to heal all damage and then a casting of lifegiving will cure. As GM i have a hard time with this. I know it's a fantasy game but it seems that if any death can be healed where is the sense of risk? what are your thoughts

Is it possible to survive?

Yes, but I would require the following
Major Healing (scaled for broken & shattered bones AND heal all damage) - if you are used to Rolemaster, this interpretation is that heal all damage is heal all bone damage or Mass Bone/Shatter Repair True
Major Healing (scaled for nerve damage AND heal all damage) - so heal all nerves
Major Healing (scaled for organ damage AND heal all damage) - so heal all organs and muscles/tendons in neck
plus any necessary Major Healing for hits/round, penalties, hits.

Then Lifegiving and given that the character has died and the clock has started ticking for stat deterioration, we should be harsh here too and scale to heal all damage.

If you have someone with lots of PPs and a lot of spell skill, then with superheroic efforts, the character might survive.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[pyrotech]

Hmm.  Maybe it is just me but that seems pretty harsh by my reading of the spells.

I would be tempted to go with Lifegiving scaled to heal all life threatening damage (the character is now a breathing quadrapalegic), followed by a series of major healings scaled to handle the bone and nerve damage.  Organ damage seems just a bit of a stretch since there are only a few major organs I can think of in the neck - but to discourage receiving further beheadings I could see it.  The major healings to handle these damages could also be used to take care of maneuver penalties and concussion hits lost.

It would still take 28 ranks in Lifegiving, and 14 ranks in Major Healing to do this, as well as 64PP spread over all these spells to pull it off (and that is only if you got to the character within a couple of minutes of loosing their heads, the duration scaling would add to the Lifegiving ranks needed).

Fantasy games have always struggled with the problem of raising the dead making death a minor inconvenience for experienced characters.  But even with the more generous costs I would go with, it would be cheaper and easier to just use Create Undead to turn them into a Class IV undead (vampire maybe - they may be able to regenerate a beheading).

Just my opinion on the topic.

-Pyrtotech

[Warborn]

ok, a player is decapitated. one player believes that major healing scaled to heal all damage and then a casting of lifegiving will cure. As GM i have a hard time with this. I know it's a fantasy game but it seems that if any death can be healed where is the sense of risk? what are your thoughts

Is it possible to survive?

Yes, but I would require the following
Major Healing (scaled for broken & shattered bones AND heal all damage) - if you are used to Rolemaster, this interpretation is that heal all damage is heal all bone damage or Mass Bone/Shatter Repair True
Major Healing (scaled for nerve damage AND heal all damage) - so heal all nerves
Major Healing (scaled for organ damage AND heal all damage) - so heal all organs and muscles/tendons in neck
plus any necessary Major Healing for hits/round, penalties, hits.

Then Lifegiving and given that the character has died and the clock has started ticking for stat deterioration, we should be harsh here too and scale to heal all damage.

If you have someone with lots of PPs and a lot of spell skill, then with superheroic efforts, the character might survive.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

That seems like a fair way to resolve it. I'm of the mind that you shouldn't be able to just pop on the PC/NPC's head and wiggle your fingers a few times and presto you are all healed and ready to go again.  There should be a real fear that the character can be lost from the injury, or just like dren77 said there will be no fear of dying. I would go one step further, making the character or NPC make a roll (will save or something similar) to actually want to leave their final resting place and return to the world they just left. Adjust the roll based upon if they had unfinished business that really drove the character, i.e. saving a loved one, vengeance, that sort of thing, or if they had a full rich life and were ready to shuffle off this mortal coil.

[dren77]

I like the idea of a will save to come back from death. who would want to leave heaven (if that's where they end up) to go back to the real world

[Bruce]

I would also ask the player privately. If he wanted to come back. If not and all the required rolls were successful then the character would get revived, but it wouldn't really be the character. Maybe something sinister. At first I would let the player play the character as normal, and things would change slowly. This would put a whole new spin on the idea of always resurrecting deceased characters not to mention it would give me some really great opportunities to run some horror scenarios. I could also do this if the character wanted to come back, maybe something followed him/her back and now co-inhabits their body. Oh, now the gears are turning......

Bruce

[PhillipAEllis]

It would make a great excuse:

"Sorry for impaling you on my falchion, it was my flatmate who did it...."

[Warborn]

I would also ask the player privately. If he wanted to come back. If not and all the required rolls were successful then the character would get revived, but it wouldn't really be the character. Maybe something sinister. At first I would let the player play the character as normal, and things would change slowly. This would put a whole new spin on the idea of always resurrecting deceased characters not to mention it would give me some really great opportunities to run some horror scenarios. I could also do this if the character wanted to come back, maybe something followed him/her back and now co-inhabits their body. Oh, now the gears are turning......

Bruce

I dont know many PC's that wouldnt want to come back after investing time in a long standing character  The idea that something followed them back  is great, keep in mind that holy magic bringing the soul and body together again would rule out a possession in most cases, unless the diety was of a more diabolical nature or the spell was botched badly. I guess you could get with the player and discuss it with them, then again who says that it has to be a malign hitchhiker. A blindingly good co-inhabitant could cause some real problems for PC's that are not exactly what you would consider good, no I will not allow you to steal from that old lady sort of thing.

[Warborn]

Sorry I meant to add to this line " keep in mind that holy magic bringing the soul and body together again would rule out a possession in most cases in my opinion."
 
I bolded that part because when I read it again it really seemed like I was saying that is they way it is and not my personal view on the subject. That and I couldnt seem to find an edit button anywere...

[Thom @ ICE]

Edit button disappears after a matter of time... (I think 30 minutes)

[Bruce]

Edit button disappears after a matter of time... (I think 30 minutes)

Yeah I just noticed that in a post about the Cyradon book. I missed a word, lol.

Warborn, no big deal as a lot of GM's accidentally say things as a rule when it is only their opinion. It comes with being a GM, I know I have done it. Though some do it intentionally. If your not a GM then simply report to be drawn and quartered as there is no excuse for a player speaking out of "turn"!
J/K

Bruce

[Pat]

Drawn and quartered for a first offence. Tough but fair 

[Old Man]

Does HARP have a Preservation equivalent? That was always our mantra in Rolemaster - Preserve, Heal and then the epic Lifegiving to go find the soul and see if they want to come back (sometimes they don't). I don't recall a decapitation in our campaign(s) but we've had equivalent ugly injuries (limbs, crushed skulls, organs jellified, vaporized, etc.)

[Thom @ ICE]

Do you mean Lifekeeping?

[Old Man]

Do you mean Lifekeeping?

No. I meant the spell to keep the body from decaying (see Spell Law - Life Mastery). Usually easier to cast and maintain. But does requiring the harder Lifegiving afterwards.

[Thom @ ICE]

No, there is nothing in HARP that mimics that.
I'm sure Nicholas or someone else could recreate it for HARP.

[Alwyn]

I would also ask the player privately. If he wanted to come back. If not and all the required rolls were successful then the character would get revived, but it wouldn't really be the character. Maybe something sinister. At first I would let the player play the character as normal, and things would change slowly. This would put a whole new spin on the idea of always resurrecting deceased characters not to mention it would give me some really great opportunities to run some horror scenarios. I could also do this if the character wanted to come back, maybe something followed him/her back and now co-inhabits their body. Oh, now the gears are turning......

Bruce

Bruce,

That is a totally evil idea.......and I love it!  I think I will use this in the future.  I can see it now, the soul gets knocked out of the way on its way down and something evil take over the body.  Meanwhile, the PC's soul, now a ghost, wonders around trying to make contact with its former comrads.  Which is the real real PC?.....evil laugh.........   

[Bruce]

Or maybe the character came back and something came back with him/her, and they don't know it. Yet. Both inhabiting the same body, only the one is only active when the character is sleeping. Then as time goes on there are times when the GM has the character do things that they wouldn't normally do. When the player questions the GM, he/she simply states (in a note) "you didn't seem to be in control for that". Maybe before that the character sees things in a different way, maybe noticing things that aren't really there (manipulations by the stow-away) and acting on them.
Oh yes, I can have fun with the players........Muahahahaha

Bruce