Author Topic: Rolemaster for Dummies  (Read 9229 times)

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Offline PhillipAEllis

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Rolemaster for Dummies
« on: September 17, 2013, 04:37:59 PM »
G'day!

I talk elsewhere on the board about a concept, which, for want of a better title, I have called Rolemaster for Dummies (tres unoriginal of me, I know :) ). The idea is to introduce new players & GMs to the game, explain their options, how to run and play sessions, how to be a great GM and great players, and to navigate their options with the system. In short, make Rolemaster less daunting for the beginners.

This poll is asking you how you would love to see a potential Rolemaster for Dummies, should I ever help get it going. I want to, as it is, I feel a great idea, something I would have loved when I started playing RPGs, and something that I feel would give value to the game and the wider gaming environment.

Please add your comments below, about the options, about the idea, and about what you would love to see covered should I help get the idea going. Thank you for your time and patience,

Phillip
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Offline Old Man

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 04:44:08 PM »
No boxed set?

(Actually is your intent to be a starter RM set or more of a guidebook?)
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 04:47:27 PM »
A .pdf and a softcover, to cut production expenses to a bare minimum. Why? Because it should be free. The point of "Rolemaster for Dummies" is to generate an incentive to buy and use other RM products, right?
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Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 04:55:40 PM »
Agree with GoF about the PDF format. This is something that needs to be free and serve as a teaser to get folks moving into RM. You might also want to consider the impact of other genre areas if the RMU rules actually end up being core rules for a system that expands beyond fantasy. By that I mean you could have a section just dealing with RM concepts (stats, skills, dice rolling) that would remain constant no matter what genre is being used, and then have your basic fantasy content for RMU. If it's both free and an introduction, it needs to cover both bases, IMO.
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Offline PhillipAEllis

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 04:59:05 PM »
Good question, Old Man: my idea is more of a guidebook, but also partly a general introduction to the concept of roleplaying and being a great gamer. There is the following post from John that covers the starter RM set idea for RMU:

http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=12697.msg175246#msg175246
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Offline PhillipAEllis

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 05:01:23 PM »
By the way (before I forget) you change change your responses on this poll, and can choose more than just one option.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 06:52:31 PM »
I chose them all (nice that I could do that), because I took the question at face value. But, if it was supposed to be more like: "Of the following options, which do you think would be the best for bringing in new players?" (Probably with the option to choose up to 2 or 3 items from the list.) Then I would say: PDF, Software, and Website for help - though, in a "dumbed down" version they shouldn't need too much help.

Hands down, software is really important for RM, even a dumbed down version, because there can be lots of crunching, and the trend is moving towards electronic applications more and more.
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Offline Suzune

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 09:09:15 PM »
While I do like the idea of a simple guidebook that gives new players an interest. I wonder, how many people would start a game blind. I guess what I am asking is, when I first started playing rolemaster six years ago, my GM sat down at a table with seven people who had never played and walked us individually through the character creation process. Going over skills, mechanics and classes. I am not certain without someone to lay the initial foundation since rolemaster is very complex, that a book would be of use.

I mean certainly, I have lead a system that was unfamiliar with. However, I just wonder what it would have to entail to make it a good foundation. I assume that it would only include warrior classes then, leaving out semi and full mages do to spell lists and whatnot. Just curious.

In response to the poll, I have marked ebook, because they are easiest to share.

Offline ironmaul

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2013, 09:54:10 PM »
Depends on what the product's target audience is, players or GM's?
I would target GM's as that is the foundation of all RPG's.

Offline markc

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 02:21:06 AM »
 I chose website as for a game we play now we are constantly on a site that has the most up to date rules of the system. It makes it very easy to check things. But I do agree that this "sites" format would not work for RM for Dumb Bunnies. The site should be very simple, ie (using RMU) to succeed on a skill roll you roll D100 add your skill and modifiers and tell the GM, the GM then adds any modifiers that the player does not know about and if the result is over 100 you succeed at the task.


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Offline iMike

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 02:40:46 AM »
I’ve always thought Shadowrun's “Runners Toolkit” was about the best GM starter kit for any of the games I’ve played/GM’d…

•   It had great Art. Art feeds the imagination.
•   Full page PC examples
•   A basic “Anatomy of a Shadowrun” that explained how things came together.
        •     Similar to section 4.6 in RMExpress – that was great, it broke down the combat rules in a way that made sense.
•   Lots of NPC examples.
•   A really nice GM shield, it didn’t get used that much, but was awesome just the same.

I know that Shadowrun is more story driven and linear where RMx is more of a hardware platform that you bring your campaign into, modify it to work with the rules. So some sort of starter package could be put together that tastefully shows off Rolemaster’s strengths - a package for GM’s that hadn’t played in a while to feel confident in running a game.

Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2013, 08:34:34 AM »
Depends on what the product's target audience is, players or GM's?
I would target GM's as that is the foundation of all RPG's.

You need to do both, but in my experience it's more important with RM to target the GMs as you suggest. RM requires (nay, demands) a level of GM competence that (again in my experience) is higher than many games. And in response to iMike's comment, I've always found it to be the reverse: you modify the RM rules to work with your campaign. It's that modular aspect that makes RM so powerful, but it's also why it requires an above-average level of GM competence.
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Offline VladD

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2013, 09:27:01 AM »
I notice I can actually compensate for player newbieness. When they just say what they want to accomplish and I then rattle off the necessary maneuvers. They take more time looking up the skills and rolling than I need to support the Roleplaying effort.

It is actually a good idea making a "for dummies book". In my opinion it should target GMs and note which sections pertain to players, because GMs need the same info as players so it can be used by both.
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Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2013, 09:35:54 AM »
I notice I can actually compensate for player newbieness. When they just say what they want to accomplish and I then rattle off the necessary maneuvers. They take more time looking up the skills and rolling than I need to support the Roleplaying effort.

It is actually a good idea making a "for dummies book". In my opinion it should target GMs and note which sections pertain to players, because GMs need the same info as players so it can be used by both.

+1 on the thoughts about dealing with new players. It's easy IF you know the system and how YOU'RE going to use it. But I've played in games where the GM had no real idea about either the system or how they wanted to use it. That can kill a RM game in particular because the system is SO open. Sometimes I think we forget that because we're so used to it.

I'd say for organization you have a first section intended for both players and GMs (dealing with the basics like RM tables and such) and then the second part for GMs especially. The common knowledge needed by both should be up front so there's no hunting around. It also gives players some confidence that the GM has actually read the same thing they have.

I'd be happy to help with this, especially in terms of keeping it accessible to all types of players and GMs.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2013, 10:13:21 AM »
My son came over last night, wanting me to help him build a HARP GM screen, a new player's guide, have some idea for layout of stuff he'd want to have on hand, etc.

It was an interesting evening, mainly because of how far I had to think back in order to contribute anything useful to the process. I mean, I played RM for decades, realistically all I needed in recent years was for the player to have a character sheet and both of us to have a pair of d10s. Everything else was fairly well in my head, having books and tables on hand was convenient, but hardly necessary. Same went for him, he's 26 and started on RM when he was 11.

Well, that hardly applies to HARP, for either of us. I'm not lost and neither is he, but very little of it is so deep in the subconscious that we can do without having tables to refer back to. So in thinking "what do you want at the table, and what goes on your 'heads up display'," I needed to cast my mind back to RM1 in the early 80s or AD&D in the late 70s.

And yes, that gave me a recent lesson in how
Quote
But I've played in games where the GM had no real idea about either the system or how they wanted to use it. That can kill a RM game in particular because the system is SO open. Sometimes I think we forget that because we're so used to it.

Dunno about you, but I certainly had.

Along the lines of "for Dummies," he prefers creating characters starting from the concept, as I do. To that end, my suggestions for building a "newbie player's guide to character generation" were mostly about changing the order of things:

1. The GM must provide the players with enough background in depth about his world setting so they can make intelligent choices about their character concept, to ensure that it fits well within the setting. If the player can do that, most of the other choices become comparatively obvious.
2. The player defines his character concept, meaning who the character is, rather than what the character is. "What's my motivation for this scene" and all that. At this point I don't care if you want "a half elf ranger," I care about if you want "the child of a rancher and an herbalist, spent most of his childhood in the woods or working with animals, parents wiped out in an orc attack, one sibling presumably still living but he hasn't seen or heard from them in years, has a major chip on his shoulder now about orcs, family and trusting people, not comfortable with large groups of people."
3. Choose race, culture and talents to fit the concept. Don't buy a talent unless your concept outlined above doesn't make any sense without it.
4. Then, and only then, do I care about stats and skills.
5. Once stats and skills are done, go back to talents and see if there's anything you wanted but wasn't vital that you can still afford.

However, please note: Because HARP, like RM, is so wide open and just begs to be tweaked to fit the GM's setting, none of this works without the GM defining his setting well enough to be able to explain it to the players first, before the players ever crack a book or decide anything at all about who and what they are playing.

2cp, hope it helps.
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Offline Badger

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 03:50:16 PM »
Ditto for me with just about everything GoF said. Except the bit where his son came and we made harp-y stuff.  :)

To aid my players, I threw together a new character sheet with a second page for aiding character creation. The hope was that it would speed up char gen. The amount of flicking through tables in RMU is a huge time suck.

While it did speed up the char gen process, we're still only using part of the rules - so there will be large gaps where there's no place for 'X'.

We think that slowly and incrementally switching from RM2 to RMU will work for us, I doubt that it would suit most groups. I'll whack the sheets into the vault. Just bear in mind that no effort has gone into making them pretty or comprehensive.





Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2013, 04:03:13 PM »
When I did my world, I made sure that players had handouts for all allowed races/cultures, including the professions normally found in each group, the background skills they gained based on their place of birth, common gods, naming and some social conventions, and so on. Keep in mind that most of my groups were composed of at least 50% who'd never gamed before, and all of them found that sort of thing very helpful when it came time for them to start on their character concepts. I also had them roll for origin first, which gave them a starting point (my world was also flexible enough to allow someone who wanted to play an elf in a dominantly human realm to do that...but I also had a handout for them, too...).

Granted my system is a bit complex and not for everyone, but I found with most of my new players that they wanted that level of background and context. Mine was always rules light (or hidden behind the screen) and heavy on flavor and context (I actually had two characters get in a fight once because they were from two tribal groups that had a historic rivalry...I took that as a sign that the system was working well... ;)).

The point of the elongated discussion is that I knew how I wanted to use RM and reworked RM2 to fit my world concept (down to redoing skills and skill costs for the professions I kept). I'd seen other RM2 GMs constantly trying to fit all the Companions into their games, or simply getting everything and trusting to luck that it would work. That might work with some games...but it's a quick trip to disaster (and an unmotivated gaming group) to try it with any version of RM. We need to help newcomers to avoid those pitfalls.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2013, 04:58:33 PM »
I like to put together a player packet with every game I run. Both for giving the players ideas on how to make their characters, but also so that I don't have to continue to explain things as the game goes. My hope is that the players will be able to use the information to come up with in-game ideas using the information that is in the packet. Example: They need to find some special item, and from the info packet they know of a local merchant who just might be part of the black market. I would rather they come up with the idea, based on knowledge gained from the player's packet, without me having to point them in the direction, like making them make a die roll for "memory" or something like that. The latter method is just so unsatisfactory.
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Offline Old Man

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2013, 05:13:28 PM »
I ended up doing the same thing - an introductory PDF:
(two in fact - see http://home.comcast.net/~adurston3/Campaign-Color.html at the bottom -
1) This missive contains a brief history, a brief discourse on geography, the races, the deities, and the specific details on the continent of Tarna, home of most of the campaigns.
2) This missive contains the races, character generation for Rolemaster PCs, available Rolemaster character classes, additional Rolemaster skills used/not used in these campaigns and additional rules variations. )
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Offline arakish

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Re: Rolemaster for Dummies
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2013, 09:16:40 AM »
I am doing much the same for my world.  Except I am trying to put everything on-line so any players I do have can access the information as long as they can connect to the WWW.

Of course, I am thinking I have to move to another server since the service I have is no longer allowing me access for updating the site.  I have been playing email tag with them for over two months.  How much longer should I wait?  Probably none.  This weekend, I will look for another free hosting site and see about redoing my site.

Although I have not updated in a while (using their pathetic one-file-at-time system), you can see a precursor here: http://www.conceptvisions.net84.net/.  Please remember I have rewritten some of the pages, just have not been able to use ftp upload with filezilla.

Not only do I have information for players, I also have information for me to refer to if needed.  Of course, the info meant for me is not such that players may not access it also.  Some of it, other GMs may find helpful.

The only major problem I have is not being able to design a spreadsheet for chargen like some of jdale's work and the one by allenmaher.  Technically, I probably could do it, but it would probably take me a couple of years.

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