Topic: Musings on a historical point

[PhillipAEllis]

G'day!

Ever since the genre settings for RM2 started coming out, I had been thinking of how it would be a great idea to pick a day (eg. 1000 AD) and release a series of period/genre books that overlapped in time. So there could be one set in the Holy Roman Empire, medieval England, France, etcetera, the Byzantine Empire, the Islamic States, and so on. the result would be a real world setting that allows characters to cross continents and to interact with a wide variety of cultures and settings.

What do you think and/or feel about this idea?

[ironmaul]

After reading this all I could think of was time travellers. This could be a hit for conventions to show the versatility of RM. Have about 5-7 pre-gen characters from the future traveling back to certain points in time to capture, kill, change events etc. to get their own future from being destroyed or preventing some catastrophic event. I reckon a series of seven adventures would do the trick. Actually, I really like this idea very much! Images are springing into my mind as I type...that hasn't happened to me for awhile. Hmmm time to unleash my ninja pencils onto some unsuspecting sketch paper!!!

[PhillipAEllis]

Glad to hear you've that there grey matter working, Mr Maul.

[VladD]

I would love to develop a low/non magic setting that is accurate and spanning parts of the globe. In 1000 AD even in the Americas some interesting things were happening.

But 800-900 is a more interesting period:

France: Charlemagne: deals with invaders all his reign.
England: Alfred the Great; Vikings and later Normans invade.
Middle East: Mamun the Great and Harun Al-Rashid. Golden age of Arab culture.
Cambodja: Angkor empire active (the great temple was not built though)
China: Tang dynasty; also the Tibetan Empire
Russia: Vikings establish Novgorod kingdom
Scandinavia: Norway united under one king, vikings spread everywhere.
India: Several large empires. Hindu religion.
Africa: Berber and Somali empire, also kingdoms to the south.
Americas: Mayan culture spreads

all in all quite exciting!

[intothatdarkness]

Man, Myth & Magic tinkered with this in a sense, although it did it through character creation rules instead of location-jumping. Although I never played Timeship, it might have dabbled with the location and time jumping aspects.

[ironmaul]

You wouldn't need magic if your point of origin was far into the future(magic would spoil it IMO). All firearm weapons would have some form of self destruct sequence once the time capsule left it's time location. That way no evidence of tech would be left behind. There is so much that can be done with this it makes one giddy. Although I think you would have to have a reasonably high/talented team of characters trained in history and linguistics etc. Combat should probably take a back seat in such games until the climatic end of the adventure. Killing someone could have drastic effects on the future even if the target was some evil dictator. For example what if the time team(sounds cheesy I know) was sent back to prevent Hitler from being assassinated by a certain group but finding out which group to stop would be key to the success of the mission and future events. Would be a hard call wouldn't it, who wouldn't want to pop Hitler if they had the chance. Like I said, this kind of concept is so open to variations it could go on forever. Actually this might be a good product to market to schools in learning history. I know it would be easier for this kind of concept to enter schools than your fantasy type genres with parents looking on with disfavour about magic. This is a cool idea I must say.

[Thom @ ICE]

Quantum Leap anyone....?

[PhillipAEllis]

I quite liked the Timeriders genre book for RM2, since it covered time travel both by magic and by technology. Revisiting the concept, using technology, then proceeding on to a range of historical periods for settings might then work for you, Mr Maul.

[jdale]

You wouldn't need magic if your point of origin was far into the future(magic would spoil it IMO). All firearm weapons would have some form of self destruct sequence once the time capsule left it's time location. That way no evidence of tech would be left behind. There is so much that can be done with this it makes one giddy. Although I think you would have to have a reasonably high/talented team of characters trained in history and linguistics etc. Combat should probably take a back seat in such games until the climatic end of the adventure. Killing someone could have drastic effects on the future even if the target was some evil dictator. For example what if the time team(sounds cheesy I know) was sent back to prevent Hitler from being assassinated by a certain group but finding out which group to stop would be key to the success of the mission and future events. Would be a hard call wouldn't it, who wouldn't want to pop Hitler if they had the chance. Like I said, this kind of concept is so open to variations it could go on forever. Actually this might be a good product to market to schools in learning history. I know it would be easier for this kind of concept to enter schools than your fantasy type genres with parents looking on with disfavour about magic. This is a cool idea I must say.

Makes me think of Connie Willis's Doomsday Book and To Say Nothing Of The Dog, both of which deal with time travel as a tool for historical research, with great care to fit in and not disrupt anything, that of course does not go entirely according to plan.

[Thom @ ICE]

Are you referring to Peabody's Wayback Machine....?   
  (Classic cartoon dating back to the late 50's and early 60's).

Or maybe that kid's book...   The Phantom Tollbooth.

[ironmaul]

Yeah, technology would suit better than magic. As said, a series of adventures would be best to market the RM game. I assume if it was to be run at a convention then three adventures would be best? I've never been to a con so I don't know what goes on running games, anyone care to educate me on that?

If running with historical genres I'd go for one in Rome(sword display), American civil war(muzzle loading), and one during WWII(automatic weapons) just as an example to show the versatility of the game. This is what I'd do if I was marketing RM at cons. It is simple enough to grab the attention of non fantasy fans such as enactment groups, SCA and miniature warfare organisations. Maybe that's the target audience you guys should be aiming for. The more I think on this the better I feel it profitable for RM overall, it's just my marketing mind grinding away...just ignore me;)

[PhillipAEllis]

Well, one out of three isn't bad: there's Rolemaster Rome already, and the rest can be worked on. I'm working on the beginnings of a setting which is a more speculative riff on the 18th century, involving scientific Gothic elements a la Frankenstein.

[markc]

Side note: I am torn on the idea of going back and killing hitler (lower case as he does not deserve upper case letter in front of his name). Yes he was very evil and did a lot of horrible things but the world changed so much because of what he did and those around him did. The world IMHO would be a vastly different place if little h was not in it or had been removed before the "big bad things" happened. 
MDC

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Regardless of whether any interaction was actually required between the various cultures, I'd have to say that I would be very interested in seeing, specific "windows" of time set out for specific cultures during those eras.... Not entirely sure whether I'd actually want (or use) al of them.

It's something I was hoping to expand upon with regard to military equipment, uniforms and weapons etc for "War Law" type battles... in the end you would end up with books like the "Osprey" military history series, but specific to rpgs.

[PhillipAEllis]

Sounds like something you could happily work on.

[Warl]

two words : Doctor WHO

[Cory Magel]

I still think that Steampunk is just asking for a good RPG.  There are some out there, but they just aren't doing it right (imo).  Essentially the 'Steampunk' movement is all about a slightly altered real world 19th century (Civil War, early Victorian) time frame.  I don't think making it an alternate world is going to go over.  It needs to be Earth, 18th-19th century, with some advanced tech tossed in but in the flair of that era.

[ironmaul]

I know I'm going to repeat myself again but to make a setting successful I believe you need to have a solid story/novel behind it to generate enough interest for the readers to consider picking up and purchasing the game.
In another thread(which I can't remember) someone mentioned an author that has written several successful steampunk novels. It's these type of authors that a rpg company needs to contact and come to some arrangement to use their IP.

I still think that Steampunk is just asking for a good RPG.

Are you saying that RM is that game? If so, the only way this is going to happen is if someone steps up to mark and writes it. But as Nicholas has mention recently, writers flake out and nothing happens, which is unfortunately so true of a lot of people these days I've found. To be honest I just can't see it happening as I also would like to see/work on a steampunk genre if the call was made.

Other than that the only alternative is what I've mention above, but I don't think the ICE Lords are wanting to go down that path from what I understand...they can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Thom @ ICE]

These are my own opinions only and I don't get involved in the IP side of things generally...

The majority of active settings on the market today are homegrown. I do agree that it is a big boost to initial sales to use pre-existing IP, but if you don't do it right the backlash is far worse. The royalty costs make it less profitable, and the expectations of the IP owner add to the need to continuously put out material, which in a resource constrained environment could lead to disappointment.   And finally, in regards to the actual "story/novel" bit of your comment - in today's world most of the biggest "story/novel" opportunities shift to movies or TV, and then their price tag goes way up, and expectations even further. 

That's not to say that certain settings aren't a good fit - you just have to be selective (and then you have to make the deal which is far more complicated). 

[ironmaul]

I think it goes without saying that yes, you do need to be selective, you need to do it right and to think that making these kind of deals/contracts are easy is a fools outlook. I'm in total agreement with you Thom, and I know that you guys just don't jump in without assessing the risks. It would be nice to know that if an opportunity came up that it would be considered by ICE and that this idea is on the table at least.
It's funny but sometimes I feel I'm coming across the wrong way trying to tell you how to run the business. I'm just trying to express my ideas for the game to be successful and reclaim some of the popularity it once had in the gaming industry. I guess it's a mix of a lot of talking between us fans and what would be great to have as products etc. but it feels that the wind isn't in the sails.