Topic: First Rolemaster campaign, are we making the right choices?

[Daniël]

I recently started my first Rolemaster campaign (2nd edition).

I play a Montebanc with a falchion and every cheap secondary skill I could lay my hands on.
My fellow gamers are a Duelist, a Thief and a Cleric who uses the Ranger spellists instead of the clerical ones.
Just how underpowered are our choices? We were told that one of us could play a Magus if he/she wanted to.

[Warl]

I  wouldn't  Say  your  under powered.  just  cause  you  don't  have a true mage type  doesnt  make  you under  powered.  sounds  like  you  will be  more  than adequit for  melee.  though  you  might be light  in range. the  biggest  thing a magus  would  bring  in  is  the  ability  to  enchant  the  group's  stuff.

I. the end, the GM  is  the  one  in  control of balnce and poert  levels.

[PhillipAEllis]

A good GM will be responsible for balance, yes, and a great one will compromise between the needs of the campaign setting and the needs of the players' characters.

For example: a great GM will consider the skills and abilities of the players and match them with the challenges faced, as well as being open about the sort of skills needed to be developed as the game progresses, according to the party's progress and the adventures undertaken. A campaign designed to culminate in an epic battle against daemonic forces will require certain skills that a game of intrigue and diplomacy in Ancient Rome will require.

And rather than seeing the whole as a compromised vision, as I used to, I see it now as a collaborative effort, a tapestry of many elements rather than a doily squabbled over.

[Daniël]

I  wouldn't  Say  your  under powered.  just  cause  you  don't  have a true mage type  doesnt  make  you under  powered.  sounds  like  you  will be  more  than adequate for  melee.  though  you  might be light  in range.

We have had one fight. Now we are scared of the critical hit tables...

But yes, 2 of us are deadly in melee and we suck at ranged combat.

the  biggest  thing a magus  would  bring  in  is  the  ability  to  enchant  the  group's  stuff.

So that is their thing? Producing custom magic items?


Anyway I was hoping for some game mechanical insights, not so much a trust the gm peptalk.

[PhillipAEllis]

I apologise for sucking at the game mechanics things, since it's been a whiles since I last played that iteration. You could look, though, at focussing some skill development on healing skills, and the skills needed to find & harvest herbs as well, among a number of the characters. That way you'll have backups in place. If you can hire a tame healing character as well, to tag along and pick up any dropped and/or oozing bits, that may help.

The cleric could develop, also, the relevant non-base lists as well.

[jdale]

We have had one fight. Now we are scared of the critical hit tables...

Good! Everyone learns that lesson, it's best if you can learn it without losing any characters....

[Daniël]

I apologise for sucking at the game mechanics things, since it's been a whiles since I last played that iteration. You could look, though, at focussing some skill development on healing skills, and the skills needed to find & harvest herbs as well, among a number of the characters. That way you'll have backups in place. If you can hire a tame healing character as well, to tag along and pick up any dropped and/or oozing bits, that may help.

Our complete lack of healing capability might indeed be a problem...

The cleric could develop, also, the relevant non-base lists as well.

At this point I (a semi-spell user) seem to have better spells than the cleric...

[Warl]

Mechanical Insights would be tough to determine as we have no Idea just how you and the others have developed your skills.

You seem to have the Thief side covered...Since you are a Semi spell caster, you do have some Magical Abilities to cover that area between you and the cleric. And the cleric could take some ancillary Healing lists from the open and closed channeling lists, But a Noted, you can cover your bases just through Herbs and other miscellaneous healing, if you gm Makes them available.

In the end I keep my stance that a Ranged Mage isn't really necessary to your group, but if you are Light on Ranged weapon Abilities, The GM could use tactics in situations that will severely limit your groups ability to defend and counter attack. I would look into taking a rank or 2 in a bow or cross bow.

[yammahoper]

Mechanical insights huh?  I'll try.

I play a Montebanc with a falchion and every cheap secondary skill I could lay my hands on.
My fellow gamers are a Duelist, a Thief and a Cleric who uses the Ranger spellists instead of the clerical ones.

The Montebanc is a fine profession, and the falchion is the most powerful of the 1h edge weapons, particularly versus heavy armor types.  You should build a good OB eventually, but your weapon choice does provide a small edge.

Focus on your AT and the first crit result. When you melee, you hope to parry with enough OB to force your foe to roll in the high 80's+ to crit you.  Additionally, the A-B crits tend to be less lethal, and you can afford to take a few (far better than D-E crits).  Keep your DB high enough to take the lesser crits and you will survive longer. 

Being a semi spell user will slow your overall skill development due to spell cost.  If you are playing the old A-E spell pick, you will fare better at long run dev cost but lose out at lower level flexibility.  Regardless, get all you base list to 10/ or level and train those spells every level.  Spells easily replace skills, so look close at the list and limit wasting dev on skills your spells can do.  Likewise, if you have a spell that gives a big bonus to a skill, get a rank or two in that skill.

The cleric surprises me most.  REPULSIONS is an excellent spell list and makes undead a clerics bitch.  If you have access to Channeling Companion, I recommend the cleric picks his spells from the base list in the book appropriate to his PC's faith.  The ranger base list are great for gathering info and travel in the wilderness, a bit of stealth too, but lousy in the area of offense.  The lack of healing list will only hurt you if the GM doesn't use /allow herbs.

The dualist and thief may dominate early play due to their superior skill development at low levels.  If it fits your conception, you may wish to wait to train spells until you reach level five, allowing for solid skill dev.  With RMFRP Character Law, I like to buy the talent power (either 25 or 50 levels in spells).  This allows you to save a ton of dev and train skills.

Share skill development of important skills amongst the party.  Eventually you can all have herb lore, foraging, first aid and poison lore, but at early levels, spread the skill burden out amongst the PC's.  You all need hits, observation and some melee ability, but the rest can be divided up until later levels.

[intothatdarkness]

This party would do fine in one of my RM2 campaigns...in no small part because I'd adjust things to take the party's composition into account. Healing is a problem if the GM restricts herbs. If not, it's not as big a deal (so long as you can afford the right ones). I've run games for plenty of parties that didn't have a pure spell user, and they turned out just as successful as those that had pure spell users. Of course, I also didn't throw foes at them that could ONLY be defeated by a pure spell user.

You'll have some bumps and bits along the way, and I'd suggest that your thief start loading up on missile skill as soon as he/she can. Having at least one archer in a party is A Good Thing. Given how spells develop in RM2 you can actually wait a bit before picking up a list and you don't fall behind.

[Cory Magel]

I'll always tell my players to not "be the healer" just because the party doesn't have one yet.  I'll always find a way to be reasonable about it, even if comes down to an NPC.  I really don't want someone playing a character they'd rather not.  It will always be easier to have one around, but it's not like I'm going to hose them for it either.

[PhillipAEllis]

Depending on how the player plays the ball, a paladin is always a decent compromise, with some decent healing spells & skill costs as well as decent fighting ability, but then they are, with warrior mages, among my two favourite classes to play, whatever the iteration.

[Cory Magel]

New RM players really learn to use Parry once they've been nailed by a nasty crit or two.

The party make up of the campaign I'm working on now will be: Fighter, Rogue, Warrior Monk, Ranger, Paladin and Mage.  My world is light on heavy armor (people will assume you are a knight, either in the military or of a church) and on the surface appears magic light (it's actually slightly common, but most 'public' displays of it are more like the village charm maker, local healer, priests performing 'miracles', etc).

So the Paladin can perform some healing and, fortunately, the party is obviously able to handle themselves in a scrap.  But I'll probably still augment things a little with potions.  Although since we're using Fate Points I'm not all that concerned about it.  If we were not there'd be an NPC with some real healing skills.

[Daniël]

Conclusion
Develop/get some healing.
Do use parry (we didn't in our first fight, we were really lucky in that we got to go first).
Talk our cleric into developing better spell lists.

[Cory Magel]

It sounds like you may have done it already, but don't be afraid to build your own Profession.  In our group the Ranger, Paladin and Mage all have Base Spell Lists that are different than came with the original professions.  You just need to be careful you keep a reasonable balance in power with them (although, with RM2, that horse may have already left the barn...).

Still, the Cleric should be able to pick up some open/closed healing lists without too much trouble.  Do your research on some mundane healing (herbs/plants and such).  From the sounds of it that should be right up the Clerics alley anyhow.

[Warl]

You just need to be careful you keep a reasonable balance in power with them (although, with RM2, that horse may have already left the barn...).

as a Gm what I did to help balance out the Power creep of some professions was to institute The training rues with some modifications. I also instituted a Commonality rating for every professions from common to Very rare.

The more Rare the class, the Harder it will be to find a Trainer for some skills and to find spell lists training for the spell casters. This could come in the form of High costs, or just time returning to a known trainer, or time not finding such things. If one tries to Learn spell lists from a tome or skills on their own, then they will have a more difficult time doing so and it will take longer to do so. that tends to keep them some what in check.

[Lord Garth]

I recently started my first Rolemaster campaign (2nd edition).

I play a Montebanc with a falchion and every cheap secondary skill I could lay my hands on.
My fellow gamers are a Duelist, a Thief and a Cleric who uses the Ranger spellists instead of the clerical ones.
Just how underpowered are our choices? We were told that one of us could play a Magus if he/she wanted to.

Magus Huh? That's one of the hardest hitting professions in all RM2. The rest of the professions are more or less equal in power (ie. low), but that's ok. The problem is only a real problem when you combine, say, a Sorceror and a Scholar. The Scholar will be along for the ride, but he won't be doing much in most scenarios.

[yammahoper]

Not unless your scholar is a Weapon Master in short sword, or takes Martial Artist as EV, the Martial Artist talent and even Martial Artist Student TP.  Hell, from level one either choice would result in a martial scholar.

And if he takes POWER talent, gaining the information gathering spell list appropriate to his realm and background, now he is a rocking Scholar with Mystical powers.

[Lord Garth]

Not unless your scholar is a Weapon Master in short sword, or takes Martial Artist as EV, the Martial Artist talent and even Martial Artist Student TP.  Hell, from level one either choice would result in a martial scholar.

And if he takes POWER talent, gaining the information gathering spell list appropriate to his realm and background, now he is a rocking Scholar with Mystical powers.

Background Options can help even the playing field a little, or distort it further. RM2 has been around for so long every poster here has probably house-ruled at least 50% of it to fit his vision, conveniently filling the gaps here and there. Still, in my games, BO or not, a Scholar and a Magus ... Well ...

[yammahoper]

I never really liked the Magus prof.  I had one, in a campaign everyone started at level 45 + 3d10.  The six players were the reincarnation of humanities greatest guardians...well, its a long story, but the game was a smashing success and SO very much fun.  The BE NOT spell made the game rather complicated at times.  For example, deep in a glacier was a chamber sealed by a massive ice door.  The door was trapped with the BE NOT spell.  When the sorcerer vaporized the door, he was unmade, and an old woman Animist took the young male sorcerers place and the door rematerialized...since the original sorcerer never existed, another sorcerer took his place instead.  They never did get into that room