Topic: Potion Identification

[Khorah]

As we were playing this weekend, we realized the difficulty in actually identifying a potion without quaffing it.
Other than the Liquid Analysis, I was wondering what other folks had done in the past?

We were leaning towards a small amount ingested but that seemed too simplistic. We had considered using Alchemy (the skill) but its description states specifically non-magical.

[chippermonks]

assuming it is a magical potion (and thusly alchemy doesn't work), you can use an artifact or spell lore roll to figure it out: ie (potions of flying tend to have the same light blue color, and are often stored in these kinds of bottles, etc)

[yammahoper]

Color coded bottles, of course, regulated by the Wizzards Guild.

Failing that, we use tasting it.  If the PC doesn't have some skill with poison, this is a bad way to identify an unknown liquid in a bottle.

[markc]

  Just off the top of my head I might allow a taste and an attunement roll to determine what it was, I would only allow so many free tastes before chopping into the potions duration or effectiveness.
MDC 

[Nortti]

I use attunement a lot with all magic-items and would use it with magic potions too.

[jdale]

The idea that Alchemy is non-magical is based on a distinction between magical power and non-magical chemistry. And it's true that in our world alchemy was a precursor to chemistry (with a lot of diversions into "magic" and outright fraud). But I don't know that it's necessarily advantageous for a fantasy setting to say there is a non-magical chemistry that produces useful effects, unless you want to get into steampunk or other early tech. Allowing the use of Alchemy for analysis of potions seems a lot less problematic for a game than allowing it to create effects that can't be detected or dispelled by magic and don't require expenditure of any power points...

[JohnD]

[evil DM laugh] Use the method that causes the most anxiety amongst your players. [/evil DM laugh]

[arakish]

[evil DM laugh] Use the method that causes the most anxiety amongst your players. [/evil DM laugh]

<more evil laugh>
And then what about elixirs that are not magical, such as a brew of willow bark for the pain relief from acetaylsalicylic acid (the same ingredient in aspirin)?

Attunement will not work and detection can only be done by drinking it.
</more evil laugh>

rmfr

[jdale]

Does willow bark have pain relieving properties because of chemical compounds it contains, or because it absorbs soothing resonances from the calm and watery locations where willows grow? I think a fantasy game benefits more from the latter explanation than the former. And if you use the latter explanation, there's no reason why a brew of willow bark wouldn't be magical.

More generally, is magic a unique and separate thing, or do mages merely manipulate the same energies that pervade everything? Energies which interact and change on their own as well.

Ultimately I think this is a setting question, and you can pick whichever answer suits you. I just think we are too quick to default to the modern explanations of things without considering the alternatives.

[providence13]

This has come up from time to time in our games too. Most of the time I just label potions from reputable sources. Civilized areas and tactical planners don't want to mix things up.

There has been a discount on potions that might be improperly labeled. "Were are sure this is a potion of Cold Armor, but unsure of the duration (instead of "/lvl" increments I use "/PP" increments).

Orc Shamans like to store Healing Draughts in gourds..
I like the idea of Guilds making a system of standards for potions. They would probably pass laws to make it illegal to sell non-guild potions in the area.

On the subject of Alchemy/Chemistry, I don't think mundane science should be discredited in the presence of magic. I don't use Alchemy to ID potions; it's the same skill as Chemistry, IMHO. There's just no need to advance that science when magic can perform similar or even better results. The normal scientific laws and proprieties of matter are at work in my games. Magic just gives you commands to access the source code of reality. Why spend years to develop gunpowder when you can Firebolt? 

[arakish]

Does willow bark have pain relieving properties because of chemical compounds it contains, or because it absorbs soothing resonances from the calm and watery locations where willows grow?

Technically, it is because the willow bark contains the acetaylsalicylic acid.  However, if you wish to make it magical, there is nothing to stop you.  Always the Zeroth Law of GMing: "The GM has the right to make changes to fit it to his world."  I know this simply from studying herbal remedies and from reading Jean Auel's "Earth's Children" series.

rmfr

[markc]

 In my game I tend to have normal herbs and magically enhanced herbs, but having both can be a bit of a problem explaining it to new players.
MDC

[jdale]

Acetylsalicylic acid is aspirin, it's a couple chemical steps away from what's in willow bark.

Anyway, my point is ---> in the real world, it's because of the chemicals in willow bark. But that it should likewise be true (or not) in a game setting should be a GM choice, not a basic assumption.

This is not a big difference from what you're saying. I just think you are saying that the base assumption should be assume all science is exactly the same as in the real world, and the GM can choose to deviate. I am saying the base assumptions should be only what is modeled by the rules, and science is something the GM can choose to inject into the mix if it suits them.

[markc]

jdale,
 I agree as I am coming from the other side of the spectrum, the game world works like the real world unless the magic says otherwise.


 Again I think that should be clearly stated in the game world notes or even basic game notes so players and GM's can be on the same page.


MDC

[Skaran]

Though off topic that mention of a potion of flying brought back an old game memory where I changed it into an ointment of flying. Must be applied evenly to the entire body to ensure a controlled flight.

[Skaran]

If you want to terrify players with non magical herbs I would recommend getting a copy of something like Gerard's Herbal. For example to cure poisons using concoctions from this often involves the victim being dosed with another poison, sort of like an eye for an eye thing, a poison for a poison. If you survive the medicinal poisoning the actual poisoning is also cured.

[Old Man]

I use attunement a lot with all magic-items and would use it with magic potions too.

Same here. Potions fell in with Runes, Scrolls and Items under Attunement.

[dutch206]

This falls in with my general complaint about how difficult item identification is in RM games.  In 'that other system', any first level mage can identify any item.  Saves a lot of time.

[PhillipAEllis]

This falls in with my general complaint about how difficult item identification is in RM games.  In 'that other system', any first level mage can identify any item.  Saves a lot of time.

But then RM has a greater level of skill in this regard than "t'other game." It's not a case of not getting better over time, in that system, but knowing from the start all the details.

[Marrethiel]

As we were playing this weekend, we realized the difficulty in actually identifying a potion without quaffing it.
Other than the Liquid Analysis, I was wondering what other folks had done in the past?
We were leaning towards a small amount ingested but that seemed too simplistic. We had considered using Alchemy (the skill) but its description states specifically non-magical.

Labels... seriously who wouldn't want to label their potions?
EG: C crit to the chest, dieing in a few rounds, gasping to the fighter... "the tall bottle with the swirling stars in it... no.. you idi... oth.. one.."