Topic: Harp Monsters - Greater Spider (errata)

[jasonbrisbane]

Hi,

I realise this *may* be breach of forums rules, so I'll post it in spoiler to start...

I am listing what I think should be the correct details for the Grater Spider (level 20) in the Harp Core.
It just doesnt seem right based upon the details in the M:AFG section that details how to create monsters. As such I am re-creating it here with stats but no details of what the creature does or db or OB breakdowns... hopefully that will mean I can keep this here..

I would be interested in your feedback..

(click to show/hide)

GREATER SPIDER
Stat Bonuses = +36, thus making this a level VI creature. Its base size is Large, which fits in with the base Endurance bonus.
A Level VI creature thus has a +120 stat with a +30 stat bonus = +60 before racial stat bonuses.

Level 20
Size: L
BMR: as harp core
INIT: 34+33 = 67 (!!!)
SKILLS:
This is the tricky part. This beast can cast spells, and MAFG says magic users are one category higher thna normal (thus it is class VI instead of class V) and they get one rank in PP per level. With the minimum racial stat bonus being +3 then the minimum stat bonus they get is +33. Use the same reasoning for spells and skills means the following applies:
20 ranks = +70
stats = 33(base + racial bonus) + 33  (second base stat + racial bonus) = +66
Talents: none:
PP base endurance = +70.
HP base endurance =  +150
means Skills minimum = +136
PP = 206
HP = 286
Spells = 20 ranks total bonus=+136 minimum

DB =  survival instinct (+70); Tough Hide (Major) (+40); Stats(+60) = +170
OB = Base = 136, but could have numerous talents (Mandibles and stinger both are natural weapons and as such use Martial Arts skill (with different criticals to resolve).

Talents which assist:
- Skill Specialization (+10 to OB skills (can apply to max 3 skills)
-  Bane
- Eloquence
- Subtle (As per harp core)
- Instinctive Defense
- Scope Skills (Radius ) - specifically for WEB Spell
- Scope spell (targets) - specifically for web bolt!

The stinger and mandibles may be considered as:
 monster bone, (according to MA) giving a +30 to OB
Shell/Chitin/Horn giving a +25 OB and +35 DB.
I'd give a skill specialisation to both Natural weapons giving a +10 (as per fighter bonus, or use it as DP's spent), thus making a +146 OB.

Look ok everyone?

[Fidoric]

Wow ! That monster is... monstrous ! Not sure I want to meet one.
If you consider it to be fighter-based, you should also add a + init bonus for lightning reflexes, making it a +72 init monster.

[Thom @ ICE]

I am lost on some of your initial assumptions and how you have applied them - where did the 36 come from?

[ZuS]

Hey those are my gf's stats in pissed off mode.

[jasonbrisbane]

Hi

Stat bonuses are from mafg monsters stats list (second last page in the book). Because of that, this means the stats are 120, not 75 as per the monster description.

)Es it is a tough one, but it  level 20!!

[jasonbrisbane]

sorry, I take that back.

Its actually the HARP core book with the Greater spider stats...
pg 156.


In M:AFG, table; 9.1 lists Large creatures as 20 attribute points.
But page 123 says monsters with magical abilities are one Monster level greater, so on Table 9.2 you use Class VI, which then meets the +36 stat point that the creature has.....

But even a Large creature, Class V has a stat of 100, giving it stat bonuses +10, making all skills and OB +10 greater than what they already are (as the Harp core uses 75 stats across the board).

Confused yet? I know I am...

[Thom @ ICE]

The first thing to remember is that Core was written first and doesn't always sync to MaFG. (Similar to the way spells don't match up to the spell creation rules in CoM).

The reference to one level higher is for "exceptional magic ability" - but the description of Greater Spider reads as simply standard spellcasting. 1 spell for every two levels is not "exceptional" in my book.

The +36 Stat Bonus is the combined total of all of the RacialStatBonus - not for each one.

Large Class V (level 20) the stat level is at 100 rather than 75 - we are agreed. 
That will then increase all skill references to +20 over the # of ranks used bonus - we are agreed.
Greater Spider StatBonus are - 10/10/0/4/3/3/3/3 = +36 total - we are agreed.

Primary Att - +113 (63 ranks) +10 (RacialStatBonus) +20 (StatBonus) +30(Favored Weapon) = +173
Secondary Att - Less than +143
Endurance = +113 (63 ranks) + 13 (RacialStatBonus) + 20 (StatBonus) + 150 (Table 9.1) = 296
Resistance (Total should be 60 ranks) with a base 40. They are spread roughly evenly so use rank 20 for each (+70) and +20 for StatBonus. Finally use the appropriate RacialStatBonus
RR Stamina - +150     RR Will - +136     RR Magic - +136
PP -  Base +50 (table 9.1) + 70 (20 ranks) + 6 (RacialStatBonus) + 20 (StatBonus) =  +146
Skills spread across a range
- RacialStatBonus = +0 to +20
- StatBonus = +20
- Ranks = +0 to +113

Perception should probably be at max - +6 (RacialStatBonus) +20 +113 = +139
Spells would be +139 also
Initiative - +7 (Qu+In) +20 (StatBonus) +5 (Lightning Reflex) = +32
DB = +70 (Survival Instinct (I HATE that!!!)) + 40 (Tough Hide) + 8 (QuBonus*2) +20 (StatBonus) = +138
BMR = 20

I have not gone to the detail level on the Skills or Combat abilities or Talents...

[jasonbrisbane]

Hi Chosen.

Thanks.
Even with that, it is still a much more formidable opponent than that as listed in Core.

This is why I like to make the monsters as per M:AFG - to ensure that all monsters follow the same rules!

[Thom @ ICE]

Agreed - and while M:aFG offers a consistent tool for creating those monsters there are still aspects of it that I don't care for (but that's more of a personal opinion) - but at least it's consistent.