Topic: Vision Question

[jasonbrisbane]

What is the penalty for wearing glasses?
Is there a perception modifier for wearing magical glasses (I remember seeing an associated penalty in RM)?
Since HARP has full suits of armour (soft leather, rigid, chain, plate/chain and plate) which include a Helm then would wearig glasses prohibit getting the bonus from the Helm? (i.e. you have to take the helm off to wear the glasses)

Or could you wear the glasses over the helm with a Penalty to Perception?

Are there any RM people who know what the RM penlaty is? Could this same penalty also apply in HARP?

Thanks in advance.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

HARP does not contain such penalties.

[jasonbrisbane]

Hi,

So you could wear a pair of glasses over a suit of full plate?
Assuming the ears are covered, what do the glasses sit on?   

Would any newly created item have to specify any penalties?

[jurasketu]

Um... Glasses should easily fit inside a helmet - do you think not? Put the glasses on, then helm. Unless the helm was unusually close fitting I don't think there would be a problem. I've worn glasses under paintball goggles, hardhats, face shields, etc. Is there a former or current SCA guy out there with an experienced opinion?

At worst, the helmet might have to be made special - but virtually all full armor has to be custom fitted anyway - the armorer would just make sure the helm fit over the glasses during fitting.

To be honest, the REAL problem would be the tendency of glasses to fog up inside a full helm (or other confined space). As a GM I would apply a perception penalty for wearing a full helm (glasses or no) by simply adjusting the difficulty of the perception maneuver.

Robin

 

[jasonbrisbane]

Thanks for that.

I suppose since the HARP armour must be custom fitted anyway then any googles/glasses found would be adjusted into the armour.

If someone wanted to wear a newly aquired pair of glasses then the GM would have to determine himself if a penalty applied.
Personally Id not allow a full helm to be worn whilst wearing goggles (but other helms would be ok (ie only skull and ears/cheeks covered).

Thanks for the ideas and clarification...

[Cloven-Fruit-Games]

Is there a former or current SCA guy out there with an experienced opinion?

Glasses are annoying at best under a helm.

Assuming, unlike most mammals, wearing a tin can over your head, holding in all that heat, and not exercising (like combat) you will not be sweating. Because, if like most mammals under those conditions, you will be sweating. Thus the glasses will slip.

To be honest, the REAL problem would be the tendency of glasses to fog up inside a full helm (or other confined space).

This is also a concern.

The biggest concern is that if you fall down, or get hit in the head, the glasses can get broken. Then you have glass in your eyes. which would cause alot long term damage. Penalty for wearing glasses under a helm, not much; penalty for getting glass in your eyes, blindness.

The SCA and most other groups, make the fighter remove glasses from under helms. Some are adjusted to the prescription sports goggles and allowing them. However they are made in theory for the rough and tumble of sports.

Most boffer groups that do not require protective head gear do not require removal of glasses. However, most of those groups do not allow head shots. In spite of not allowing head shot, they strong recommend you remove the galls, so they do not get broke.

I remove my glasses when engaging in assorted sports which are intended to replicate middle ages combat.

[jasonbrisbane]

I suppose that any glasses in an RPG are assumed to be 'magical' (as can be understood) and therefore are immune to normal damage/physics!

[Pat]

That's an interesting point....Does magic make an item tougher?

For instance, is a pair of normal glasses (for corrective vision) more likely to break than a pair of glasses with an Infravision enchantment on them?

My thought would be that it would be the materials used that would make the item tougher rather than the magic. IMO a pair of enchanted glasses (made of glass) would be no tougher than an ordinary pair but, if the  glasses were made out of better material (such as clear diamond lenses) then it would extremely tough to break.

Then again, if the glasses are enchanted with magic, do they really need to be glass at all? Could they be made out of discs of iron and the magic puts the view into the wearers head?

Ouch my head hurts....I'm gonna lay down for a while 

[choc]

Where's the problem?

Look at the history of glasses:

The first suspected use of corrective lens were emeralds. Chinese have used smoky quartz as sunglasses. The the first wearable eye glasses approach in 13th century.
 
They are used to read and write manuscripts and documents. The lenses are made of beryl.

The first modern glasses are developped in the 18th century held by temples passing over the ears. However mostcommon glasses in this period are scissor glasses hold by hands to read and to view opera.

Glasses we known are developped in the early 20th century. These are glasses worn all day.

Ok, conclusion: in a fantasy world without steam and blackpowder were wouldn't be any people put on their glasses all day. Exception: dwarves. But a dwarf would neither have penalties with them nor would dwarven glasses ever broke.

[jurasketu]

I know what your saying... Anachronisms are always a problem in fantasy role-playing. What technology to allow and what to not allow is a problem constantly biting the ankles of a gamemaster. Sure, to avoid hassles the GM can decree - "we'll only use the state of technology present in 3rd Century CE Rome, the Bronze Age or 5th Century BCE China or whatever..." The trouble with even that is often we think we know what technology existed during a particular era - but we're often wrong.

For example, stirrups for riding horses (giving a critical military advantage to horsemen) didn't appear until the 4th century CE. Pockets literally were not invented until the Renaissance (not making that up). The yoke (for use with draft horses) was not invented until the 7th century CE. Until that time, wagons could only be pulled by oxen - ie durned slow and nigh useless for transporting goods. The wheel barrow was invented about the 2nd Century CE in China and didn't reach Europe until much later. Various construction techniques follow the same strange sorts of dates. Yet the Romans were using modern concrete mixes in the era of the Roman Republic - but it was forgotten in Western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire and had to be reinvented centuries later.

Many inventions could easily have been made hundreds or thousands of years before they were actually known to have been invented. Glasses would seem to fall into that realm.

Personally, I like to base my own campaign level of technology in the early Renaissance era sans gunpowder - that gives me lots of room to include/exclude technologies. Although really, I like that era mainly for the bustling economic activity (lots of traders, merchants, craftsmen, etc) and modern-style institutions for economic, social, military and governmental activities without having drifted into the REALLY modern era... So, I would readily allow glasses in my campaign. Why not?

Then again, making players having to make do (and more importantly properly roleplay) with just Bearskins and Stone Knives is plenty fun.


Robin

[jasonbrisbane]

In reality (AFAIK) items are made as a result of technologcal improvements or from neccessity (ie crossbows were brought into everyday use due to platemail suits, which they could puncture easily).

Trasnlating this to a medieval fantasy setting means we have to justify how an itrem may have come into existence without the modern day history that we have.

Glasses, I see as being an easily invented item, created by Rhona/Gnomes who always seem to tend to have a history of inventiveness. A Unique discovery can become everyday use when a noble wants such an item, then other races sees theis being used by said noble and thinks, what a great idea.
(This being possible since most fantasy worlds dont have IP and Patent systems!)

[Hawkwind]

In reality (AFAIK) items are made as a result of technologcal improvements or from neccessity (ie crossbows were brought into everyday use due to platemail suits, which they could puncture easily).

Puncturing platemail wasn't a major problem - the English showed at Crecy and Agincourt that their longbows were quite capable of doing that. The big advantage a crossbow had was that you could train someone to use it in a relatively short period of time, whereas a longbow needed years of training. Other than that the longbow was a superior weapon in terms of stopping power, range and accuracy.

But your point is quite correct - it was a necessity to reinvent the crossbow (the Chinese had it hundreds of years earlier).

Hawk