Topic: [RMU] Aircraft and flying, done with Treasure Law

[Thot]

So, my players are approaching a city in a magically advanced kingdom, where it is common to produce, trade and use all kinds of enchanted products. To the point where weapons are usually staffs enchanted with lightning bolt (which are produced in masses, for the king's armed forces, which containt astonishingly few Fighters, but all kinds of more attunement-inclined professions). Selfwinding clockwork tanks using half-boles (enchanted with with fire balls and other area effects) as main guns, Constructs as heavy infantry, Bottomloess Reservoirs for ammunition of repeater crossbows, lightsaber-like blade weapons as a last resort, etc. This is all terribly expensive, but the king and his predecessors have been accumulating this kind of gear for a long time, and attract all kinds of extremely talented and experienced alchemists from all over the world. (I imagine this realm's GDP to be enormous, compared to your typical fantasy nation).

Now, one obvious trope for such societies are aircraft or air travel of some kind (in addition to some enchanted teleportation portals). Which begs the question how they might look like.

A simple approach is to simply enchant a rod (or staff) with Fly I (or Fly II). This would cost something like 390 silver pieces (or 720 for the staff), allow for flights, with recharge cost being 20 for 30 charges (or 28 for the staff, for 100 charges).

For the occiasial Flyer, a Daily Ring of Flight might be a better option. 544 silper pieces for Fly I, or 924 for Fly II.

A more luxurious item would be a Constant Ring of Flight, for 2,090 silver pieces for a Fly I version, or 2,318 for Fly II.

But suppose I do not just want individual flight, but I want to move large amounts of passengers or cargo to unknown locations (so Teleport is out of the question). Many fantasy settings have sky ships. Maybe I am overlooking them, but apart from doing a multicopter design using Perpetual Motion with some kind of transmission to steer, I am not quite seeing a good option for that? The "flying sail ship" trope is apparently not in Treasure Law or Spell Law?

A bild-like Construct with wings might be possible, depending on understanding of flight mechanics. But that would probably be limited in size?

[Amano]

If you can neutralise buoyancy with a powerful staying spell you have a sky ship.

[Thot]

Ah! That's a neat idea!

The Mentalism spell Staying True allows for 25 kilograms per Level of caster to be neutralized that way. Enchanted by a level 50 Psychographer, a boat could have a total of 1250 kilograms, including payload. That's not much (so not a 500-ton-Skypship), but it's certainly an option. It would then have to be moved by other means, such as wind or air magic. Pure enchantment cost would be either 2112 silver pieces (for 19th level) or 8125 (for 50th level, I am not sure which to apply in such a case).

[Thot]

Automated Vehicle, the level 30 spell from Mechanical Mastery, would allow for a flying vehicle on the basis of more non-magical flight. The spell states that it can substitute for a dozen horses. Assuming this means not peak performance, but long-term performance, that's equivalent to a... well, 12-horse-power engine (though peak performance of a horse is just under 15 hp, we want our aircraft to fly for a long time).

Now, a Fokker E.1 Eindecker from WW1 had a mass of about 560 kilogramms (just over a 1,100 pounds) and had an 80 hp engine, so about six Enchantments. That would be winged flight at about 120 km/h. An example for an early helicopter might be the Sikorsky R-4, with a 185 hp engine (so that would be about 15 enchantments), which had a starting mass of 1,200 kilograms, or 2,500 pounds. So, for much effort, we'd still not get flying ships, but at least small single-seater aircraft. A single enchantment of Automated Vehicle will cost 16,704 silver pieces, though.

A Large construct would be equivalent to these craft in weight. Properly shaped, could it be strong enough to carry a rider or two? It seems so, as per section 5.4 of RMU Treasure Law, which explicitly offers the option of flight for constructs and golems. If I understand the rules correctly, creating a Construct is a simple level 13 enchantment, which would cost 3828 silver pieces to enchant, PLUS the material cost (for good steel, that would be something like 2,500 silver pieces for a 1.25-ton-construct) and the cost of crafting the construct inside and out (the latter should be in the range of 2 sp per working day, I would guess). Certainly a much cheaper option than building an airplane or helicopter as described above, but still not cheap.

RMU Treasure Law hints at another option, though: One that is even cheaper.

On page 23, Table 2-2a: Animals lists, among other things:

"Dracasus 1200 Trained as a mount; takes to combat naturally"

In the beta file of Creature law, the following description is found:

"Dracasus:
Appearing very much like a serpentine Pegasus, a Dracasus has bat wings rather than feathered ones,
scales rather than hair, and a fin rather than a mane. The beast’s tail is very Dragon-like, and the feet are
clawed rather than hoofed. It boasts a 40' wingspan. The Dracasus is a strange creature. It is thought by
some to be a fell beast, and by some to be a demonic Pegasus. The latter seems hardly to be true, as a
Dracasus can be trained to be a fine and noble steed. Like Pegasi, they can make wonderful mounts if
trained properly. As a trained mount it can carry 600 Lbs without penalty, and gives the rider a special
bonus of +10 to all Riding maneuvers. There is said to be a wild herd of fire breathing Dracasus that
dwell on some distant mountain range. The Dracasus is an omnivore, and eats birds, rodents and small
cattle and deer as well as grass, oats and more traditional equine food. It can weather cold climes much
better than most reptiles, often nesting on high rocky spires amid arctic winds. In combat, the Dracasus
swoops down upon its opponents and rams the victim down or slashes with its claws. On the ground, it
tramples foes like a horse after charging. Its bite can also be quite vicious."

So assuming that this animal is typical for flying creatures of rideable size (FCRS?), at least in terms of price, it's certainly a more affordable option than any of the others, while still not being an everyday occurence.

[Thot]

Ah, but there is Flying Carpet, the spell (or group of spells) from the Psychographer base list! This is extraordinarily cheap, at material cost for the carpet plus 589  silver pieces for a carpet that can run at 50 feet per round, or about 3 meters per second (about 10 kilometers per hour)! Faster versions do exist, but this is by far the cheapest entry-level aircraft I have found so far!

[Thot]

What especially fascinating about Flying Carpets is:

"The carpet can support up to 100 pounds per square foot of carpet (seating space can also be a limiting factor)"

In other words, about 500 kilograms per square meter, and the carpet's size is NOT limited in any way. So one could indeed weave a carpet 10 meters wide and 100 meters long, and have it carry stuff weighing up to 500 tons!

Would this mean flying ships are basically just flying carpets with wooden attachments?

[rdanhenry]

The size of the flying carpet is limited by the Work Weave spell. The highest level version is Work Weave VI at level 40, producing a 6' x 10' carpet. At 60 square feet, that can carry up to 3 tons (6,000 pounds) but assuming each person needs 2' x 2' space for seating, limited to 15 riders. It's quite a useful transport, but it won't be carrying full ships aloft.

[Thot]

Gotcha! That makes total sense. Thanks for that hint.

[Thot]

Funnily enough, I laughably overestimated the cost for an entry-level Flying Carpet, because I assumed them to be enchanted as Constant items. But that's not true, the spell is enchanted (along with Work Weave) as-is. So the carpet is actually a lot cheaper, with one level 2 and one level 3 spell, for an item level of 3 and 5 days of enchantment required, which translates to 10 silver pieces of wage for the Psychographer (alchemist), plus 15 silver pieces in material cost (correct?). So a cheap Flying Carpet could be as affordable as 25 silver pieces?

[jdale]

If you want skyships, I would either do that as ritual or have a custom list, maybe a ship enchantment list? Seems reasonable if your society is basically using magic as technology.

[Thot]

Actually, as my current campaign is specifically for exploring the RAW, all I really want is use the existing spell lists to their full extend.

[rdanhenry]

There really aren't the rules for handling any kind of vehicles in significant detail yet. Or buildings and siege weapons. Which is why these subjects are barely touched by the magic rules.

[Thot]

Hm. Using Flying Carpets as sails on a skyship might also work...

SSS Gorch Fock, the German navy's sail training ship, has 1,800 square meters of sails, which is 19,000 square feet, which means a carrying capacity of 1,900,000 pounds. or just under 1,000 tons. SSS Gorch Fock displaces about 2,000 tons, so as a skyship, she would have to be built much lighter, but it's not totally implausible. Even if we assume that "skyship sails" based on the same magic principles as Flying Carpets would require different spells, the general strength of those magic principles checks out.

[jdale]

I imagine you could build the structure quite a bit lighter if you don't need it to be able to float, don't need to worry about it tilting and taking on water, etc. There are big materials differences (especially aluminum) but the Hindenburg was about 800' long and could lift a total of 511,000 lbs. Designed for 40 crew + 50 passengers. I'm not sure of the total area of the envelope but it would have been substantial. If we pretend it was spherical based on its volume of 7,062,000 cu ft, it would have been about 180,000 square feet of area, which if enchanted at that ratio would lift 9000 tons. In practice it would be more area since it was not a sphere. Without fuel, passengers, or cargo, it weighed about 260,000 lbs = 130 tons. That includes about 18 tons of lift gas that wouldn't be needed.

As a completely different data point, I actually do have a spell for this in my setting. I reworked Lofty Bridge mainly because I wanted to make it harder to cast Fly on other people. Thus I added Flying Mount, Flying Vehicle, and Flying Ship.

Lvl   Spell   Area of Effect   Duration   Range   Type
1   Leaping *   caster   1 round   self   U
2   Landing *   caster   varies   self   U
3   Traction   caster   10 min/lvl   self   U
4   Edgerunning   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
5   Levitation   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
6   Aether Support   caster   C   self   U
7   Fly I   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
8   Landing True *   caster   varies   self   U
9   Wallrunning   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
10   Fly II   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
11   Aether Bridge   caster   1 spell   self   U
12   Ceilingrunning   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
13   Flying Carpet II   1 object   10 min/lvl   touch   U
14   Flying Mount II   1 mount   10 min/lvl   touch   U
15   Fly III   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
16   Flying Vehicle II   caster   10 min/lvl   touch   U
17   Mass Levitation   1 target/lvl   1 min/lvl   10’   U
18   Flying Carpet True   1 object   10 min/lvl   touch   U
19   Mass Aether Support   caster   C   self   U
20   Fly True   caster   1 min/lvl   self   U
25   Flying Ship II   1 ship   10 min/lvl   touch   U
30   Flying Mount True   1 mount   10 min/lvl   touch   U
35   Flying Vehicle True   1 vehicle   10 min/lvl   touch   U
40   Mass Aether Bridge   caster   1 rnd/lvl   self   U
50   Flying Ship True   1 ship   10 min/lvl   touch   U


1. Leaping I: Allows caster to leap 50’ laterally or 20’ vertically in the round that the spell was cast.
2. Landing: Allows the caster to land safely in a fall of up to 20’ per caster level or to take that distance off the severity of any longer fall.
3. Traction: Caster can run on even, unstable surfaces (sand, ice, etc.) as if on a hard, stable surface.
4. Edgerunning: Caster can run on even, narrow (at least 2” wide) surfaces as if on normal ground.
5. Levitation: Allows caster to move up and down vertically 10’/round; horizontal movement is possible only through normal means.
6. Aether Support: Caster’s next spell from this list may affect a person other than the caster, who must be willing. Target only gains the benefit while the caster concentrates (to a maximum of its normal duration). Concentration does not need to begin until the second spell has been cast.
7. Fly I: Allows caster to fly at a rate of up to 35’/round (approximately 5 mph). This spell allows free movement in all three dimensions and allows hovering.
8. Landing True: As Landing, except caster can land safely from any fall 99% of the time, and still takes the normal 20’/level off from any fall for the 1% of the time that safety is not complete.
9. Wallrunning: Caster can move up to a Run (3x) pace on solid surfaces up to 90° as if on normal ground.
10. Fly II: As Fly I, except maximum rate is 75’/round (approximately 10 mph).
11. Aether Bridge: As Aether Support, except concentration is not required.
12. Ceilingrunning: Caster can move up to a Run (3x) pace on any solid surface as if on normal ground (includes ceilings).
13. Flying Carpet II: Caster causes a carpet or thin platform up to 8x8’ to fly under his control up to 75’/round. Steering requires concentration. Caster must be in sight of the carpet at all times. The carpet can hold up to six people and their carried equipment. A Running or Acrobatics maneuver is required to remain on if any of the passengers are standing when the carpet turns or experiences high winds, but not if they are seated.
14. Flying Mount II: Caster causes his mount to fly under his control up to 75’/round, with its normal maximum carrying capacity. Controlling the mount requires the appropriate riding skill. It generally takes three successive riding maneuvers to get an animal used to flying for the first time, but only one on subsequent castings.
15. Fly III: As Fly I, except maximum rate is 150’/round (approximately 20 mph).
16. Flying Vehicle II: Caster causes a vehicle no larger than a fully loaded wagon and up to two animals hitched to it to fly under his control up to 75’/round.
17. Mass Levitation: As Levitation, except up to one target per level may be levitated. Caster must be able to see all the targets in order to affect them.
18. Flying Carpet True: As Flying Carpet II, except up to 225’/round (approximately 30 mph).
19. Mass Aether Support: As Aether Support, except the next spell will affect up to one target per level of the caster. Caster must be able to see all the targets in order to affect them.
20. Fly True: As Fly I, except up to 225’/round (approximately 30 mph).
25. Flying Ship II: As Flying Vehicle II, except a vehicle up to the size of a large naval ship and all of its normal contents.
30. Flying Mount True: As Flying Mount II, except up to 225’/round (approximately 30 mph).
35. Flying Vehicle True: As Flying Vehicle II, except up to 225’/round (approximately 30 mph) and up to four draft animals.
40. Mass Aether Bridge: As Mass Aether Support, except neither concentration nor sight is not required.
50. Flying Ship True: As Flying Ship II, except up to 225’/round (approximately 30 mph).


That's not RAW of course.

[Hurin]

That's not RAW of course.

It is juicy though!