Topic: Sharing spell adders and multipliers

[r0bperry]

A player asked me during our session regarding sharing of created spell adders and spell point multipliers. Basicly the spell list used is the one used for Druids to make a Druid staff. My player wants to be able to share the effects of his Druid staff with others on a loaner basis. I told him that the effects of his staff are just for him, but if he were able to lend the item to someone else then the effect must be treated like a daily spell item. Once activated for the day the effect is on applied to a single target/user. I figure that all other magic adders/multipliers would work the same but I can't find any reference to the duration of an effect beyond "daily use" or if sharing of these abilities is allowed. If it is allowed to be shared does it effectively recharge or reset when it changes hands. Could one person use the multiplier to boost their PP or as an adder, then either lose the item or give it to someone else and that person would have full use of the item at full charge.  I don't think it would work like that but I've been wrong before. Here is an example of what I'm talking about.

Two Essence spell casters are battling a foe. The first caster uses his +3 adder to cast a spell. He also has a multiplier and as such cast many spells over his base PP due to the multiplier. Their foe either kills or incapacitates the caster and drops the object that granted him both the adder ability as well as multiplier. The other caster needing spell points picks up the object and wants to use both the remaining spell adder points as well get the additional multiplied points. He makes Attunement just incase he needs to to access the magic item. Now even though the prior caster was able to use one charge of the adder can others use it to cast their spells. Also would the multiplier still be in effect. I know if its like a daily item, then all the second caster would have to do is wait a day, but he wants to use it now. I don't see a problem with the spell adder being swapped because its like charges in a wand. Once its used up then either a recharge is required or they wait until the following day to use it again. But the spell point multiplier is another thing.
Basicly could you have a line of spell casters from the same realm casting big spells and just handing the multiplier to the next spell caster and granting the increase in PP, using them, then passing the multiplier to the next in line. Rince and repeat.
What do you think? I see this being abused if I can't get a good answer.

[Peter R]

Regarding the add and multiplier you can only use one or the other, not both at the same time. They are both spell bonus items and the rules say you can only use one bonus item at a time.

I would not allow anyone else to use the druids staff as per the rules.

[Hurin]

Yes, the rules make clear that the Druid can only have one Druidstaff at a time, and that the Druid's spells will only affect his own Druidstaff. The rules don't say anything about others not being able to benefit from the +Spell Adder or spell multiplier effects, though, so I would allow others to use the staff for those benefits. The rule of one still applies though: the Druid might be able to give that staff away or loan it out, but he can't be in the business of arming an army.

On the issue of how long Attunement states, the rules don't make that clear as far as I can tell. Attunement is a static action, and seems to take at most a round. RMU might want to provide additional guidance in this respect by assigning and Action Point cost to it. I would suggest a full round (4 AP), since I expect it to take a fair amount of concentration.

[Voriig Kye]

Regarding the "recharge time" of adders and multipliers, I'm not sure where we got it from, but the ruling we apply is:

Adders and multipliers are activated after a full sleep/rest period so that the item can affect the wielder's aura.
This rule ensures that no more than one character gets the benefit per day.

If you don't apply something like that, the character could take off the item, give it to someone else, and then get it back, and it should benefit them again, right? With skills like channeling to transfer pp's, a multiplier could turn into an enormous supply of power for a party.

[Hurin]

I think Voriig's rule makes a lot of sense.

I would also like to see the Druidstaff list make it into RMU, together with the list that gave the Druid Stones Throw as a directed spell. It really gave the class some uniqueness and flavor.

[arakish]

I've had them perform a Magical Ritual to make loaner items.  I always ruled it took hours, sometimes a day or two.

Of course, not both adder and multiplier at same time.

rmfr

[r0bperry]

yes, you all just confirmed to me that the rules regarding sharing of adders and multipliers are ambiguous at best. I don't really have problems with adders saying that they have daily charges so regardless of who holds them only the remaining charges are available. The problem comes from multipliers where one player uses it to full extent, and tries to hand it off to another player. It makes for very powerful spell casters that really don't have to be careful with their PP. So I figure that what I can do is put an attunement requirement of having possession of an object  for at least 12-24 hrs before it becomes available. Or maybe give them a -100 to Attunement that reduces by 5 for every hour they have the object in their possession. I'll figure it out.

[Peter R]

yes, you all just confirmed to me that the rules regarding sharing of adders and multipliers are ambiguous at best. I don't really have problems with adders saying that they have daily charges so regardless of who holds them only the remaining charges are available. The problem comes from multipliers where one player uses it to full extent, and tries to hand it off to another player. It makes for very powerful spell casters that really don't have to be careful with their PP. So I figure that what I can do is put an attunement requirement of having possession of an object  for at least 12-24 hrs before it becomes available. Or maybe give them a -100 to Attunement that reduces by 5 for every hour they have the object in their possession. I'll figure it out.

I would not go down the -100 route. It is not impossible for a mid to high level caster to get an attunement skill over 100 and then if they use mediation they can get a straight +25 on the roll. Before you know it they are grabbing multipliers and making the roll even with the -100 in next to no time. A fixed 24hrs is a better option.

[netbat]

One thing to remember with the attunement rolls is that if you fail, you can't try again with that item until you gain another rank in attunement. Also the absolute and spectacular failures aren't exactly healthy. Does any character want to risk an open ended low roll with those results every time you switch wielders of the multiplier? I have a house rule that the absolute and spectacular failure rolls also permanently prevent you from attuning to the device as well. Multipliers are very powerful and should be relatively rare anyway, no magic user should want to risk losing a major item like that just to help out a friend on a regular basis.

[Spectre771]

Regarding the "recharge time" of adders and multipliers, I'm not sure where we got it from, but the ruling we apply is:

Adders and multipliers are activated after a full sleep/rest period so that the item can affect the wielder's aura.
This rule ensures that no more than one character gets the benefit per day.

Same for us as well.  The caster needs to "rest" for the period of time to allow the PP to recharge.  At the start of the rest, if the +PP or multiplier is in the caster's possession, then the new amount will be available at the start of the next day when the caster's PP are replenished.  The item is now "charged" with the caster's PP energy and needs to remain in the caster's possession throughout the day.  If he lost possession of that item, then the PP disappeared and he would have to rest with the item again.  This was a very rare thing.

If it were a Druid's Staff that took time to Attune to, then the new Druid wouldn't be able to us any magical benefits from it without spending the appropriate time studying and attuning to the device.  This is a several day process to achieve (for us).  That's not to say that someone, even a non-spell user couldn't pick up the staff to make a physical attack with it.  If it were a +5 (magical) Staff, that +5 OB would apply, but not if it was a +5 OB spell embedded in the staff that needed to be cast or activated by a spell user.