Topic: Our First Game!

[trechriron]

Long time lurker, first time poster? Well, I may have posted before...  I have owned HARP since the 1.2 revised version, and have read it before. I never had the chance to run it.

So, I have grown super weary of the d20 paradigm. I tossed aside the system we were running and picked up the latest HARP (1.5) to give her a spin! I really dig what I'm reading, this game looks super fun! I absolutely LOVE the magic options in the game. Runes are a great tidbit. The one roll combat resolution is excellent and fun. Training packages and organizations are an excellent way of bringing the setting to the characters. The rules are easy to grok and put into play, which I really like.

First, I want to say kudos to the new peeps in charge. It's good to see things coming down the pipe line with steady releases and the regular involvement here on the boards. I'm really glad I have this option to turn to!

I have some questions and suggestions! I will post my suggestions elsewhere as I dig up pertinent threads.

1) If an opponent is stunned, what's their DB? Is there any penalty?
2) Are there any "mook" rules for monsters?
3) How do you GMs out there handle task difficulty for lower level characters? It seemed like people failed a lot at certain tasks last night (Chi Focus, Tracking...).
4) What about multiple attempts at tasks? If they fail the first time, do you let them keep trying till they get it?

On general stuff...
5) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating creatures? It seems like there may be a way to "point balance" the process, but nothing is really listed in the core book. Also, would these same rules help scale the sample creatures in the corebook?
6) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating new species, professions or talents (in the same vein as above)? My fantasy setting has a menagerie of species and it would be fun to add new options to the game but I also don't want to break something.
7) How close is the bestiary? This seems like a vital component in the Quartet of HARP! Do you need play-testers? I have a group assembled all learning this thing at the same time...

Thanks!

[Theros]

Long time lurker, first time poster? Well, I may have posted before...  I have owned HARP since the 1.2 revised version, and have read it before. I never had the chance to run it.

So, I have grown super weary of the d20 paradigm. I tossed aside the system we were running and picked up the latest HARP (1.5) to give her a spin! I really dig what I'm reading, this game looks super fun! I absolutely LOVE the magic options in the game. Runes are a great tidbit. The one roll combat resolution is excellent and fun. Training packages and organizations are an excellent way of bringing the setting to the characters. The rules are easy to grok and put into play, which I really like.

First, I want to say kudos to the new peeps in charge. It's good to see things coming down the pipe line with steady releases and the regular involvement here on the boards. I'm really glad I have this option to turn to!

I have some questions and suggestions! I will post my suggestions elsewhere as I dig up pertinent threads.

1) If an opponent is stunned, what's their DB? Is there any penalty?
2) Are there any "mook" rules for monsters?
3) How do you GMs out there handle task difficulty for lower level characters? It seemed like people failed a lot at certain tasks last night (Chi Focus, Tracking...).
4) What about multiple attempts at tasks? If they fail the first time, do you let them keep trying till they get it?

On general stuff...
5) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating creatures? It seems like there may be a way to "point balance" the process, but nothing is really listed in the core book. Also, would these same rules help scale the sample creatures in the corebook?
6) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating new species, professions or talents (in the same vein as above)? My fantasy setting has a menagerie of species and it would be fun to add new options to the game but I also don't want to break something.
7) How close is the bestiary? This seems like a vital component in the Quartet of HARP! Do you need play-testers? I have a group assembled all learning this thing at the same time...

Thanks!

These are not official...but how I would handle. I have first edition HARP books and I did read those...5 years ago? Without knowing that is there some rule:

1) DB is not penalized, but attacker gets +20.
2) Well... that should roleplayed by GM. There are more intelligent and more stupid ones. I think that you are referring to combat tactics?
3) Well... low level character usually have easier tasks than higher level character. Normal task might be difficult to unskilled character and routine for high skilled character...
4) I will allow second try on tasks if first attempt was close enough...if it was not even close to succeed...then it cannot be tried again for one day.
5) ...cannot tell anything about that...like in D&D for example?
6) see above...
7) Well... Nicholas is the best person to give any answer to that.

[RandalThor]

1) If an opponent is stunned, what's their DB? Is there any penalty?

The 2 biggest effects of being stunned are that they cannot attack and can only use half of their OB to defend with, it says nothing about loosing anything from their DB. If the critical that delivered the stun has a penalty attached, that can reduce the Quickness bonus to their DB, but only down to 0, not below.

2) Are there any "mook" rules for monsters?

Nope.

3) How do you GMs out there handle task difficulty for lower level characters? It seemed like people failed a lot at certain tasks last night (Chi Focus, Tracking...).

Well, I think that 1st and 2nd level characters aren't full-grown adults, but that is just me. Another way of doing this is to not have them roll for everything, if you want them to find the tracks have them find them.

4) What about multiple attempts at tasks? If they fail the first time, do you let them keep trying till they get it?

Certain skills and attempts allow follow up attempts, like when you roll a partial success, some of these skills will say this in their description. Also, if you want, you can have them spend a Fate Point for another attempt.

5) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating creatures? It seems like there may be a way to "point balance" the process, but nothing is really listed in the core book. Also, would these same rules help scale the sample creatures in the corebook?
6) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating new species, professions or talents (in the same vein as above)? My fantasy setting has a menagerie of species and it would be fun to add new options to the game but I also don't want to break something.
7) How close is the bestiary? This seems like a vital component in the Quartet of HARP! Do you need play-testers? I have a group assembled all learning this thing at the same time...

This I hand over to the designers.

PS: Where does it say the attackers get a +20? I just read the Stunned description on page 100 and it doesn't mention it there.

[dagorhir]

PS: Where does it say the attackers get a +20? I just read the Stunned description on page 100 and it doesn't mention it there.

It's an OB modifier found on Page 92 of the core book.

[trechriron]

It's an OB modifier found on Page 92 of the core book.

Ah hah! If it was a snake...

[Turbs]

2) Are there any "mook" rules for monsters?

 
Yes.. the rule is..use your brains..

3) How do you GMs out there handle task difficulty for lower level characters? It seemed like people failed a lot at certain tasks last night (Chi Focus, Tracking...).

Firstly remember that not everything you are going to try is going to be a "Medium" maneuver.  As a GM you should be very free about giving  Penalties/bonuses to skills rolls for ideas/terrain/lighting/cover/weather etc

For example a PC wants to make a tracking roll.. 

• first thing is to decided what kind of terrain... grassland? how long is the grass? tall grass would mean the hunted has to push through it leaving a highly obvious trail of squashed grass. (maybe +30 to the tracking roll)
• How fast is the Hunted trying to travel? normal speed making no attempt to be sneaky? or are they sprinting to flee? or are they moving extremely cautiously not to bend that long grass? (apply modifiers as necessary)     
• Is the hunted wounded? if they are leaving a blood trail how many hits are they bleeding at per round? 1-3 per round probably +10 to tracking 3-6 per round probably +20
  
• Does the hunted have a unique physical characteristic? A deformed limp? a unique creature with only 3 claws? a distinct method of using its knuckles as extra limbs for movement (like apes)? give another +10 if they pass a Lore:bestiary roll.
• Are others helping the tracker? there are rules somewhere for using combined skill attempts, but generally depending on the situation you have the choice as a GM to use whatever you think feels reasonable like make anyone helping add their rank bonus to the tracking roll.  Or even just their stat bonuses.

4) What about multiple attempts at tasks? If they fail the first time, do you let them keep trying till they get it?

use the "percentage" column of the maneuver table.  The PC can keep rolling each turn until they total 100.. note that really bad results will give a negative result which can reduce the overall sucess
so it does account for someone who is terrible at it to never succeed

[Thom @ ICE]

Long time lurker, first time poster? Well, I may have posted before...  I have owned HARP since the 1.2 revised version, and have read it before. I never had the chance to run it.

So, I have grown super weary of the d20 paradigm. I tossed aside the system we were running and picked up the latest HARP (1.5) to give her a spin! I really dig what I'm reading, this game looks super fun! I absolutely LOVE the magic options in the game. Runes are a great tidbit. The one roll combat resolution is excellent and fun. Training packages and organizations are an excellent way of bringing the setting to the characters. The rules are easy to grok and put into play, which I really like.

First, I want to say kudos to the new peeps in charge. It's good to see things coming down the pipe line with steady releases and the regular involvement here on the boards. I'm really glad I have this option to turn to!

Thank you. We appreciate your acknowledgement and hope we continue to live up to your high expectations.
Now, on to your questions...

I have some questions and suggestions! I will post my suggestions elsewhere as I dig up pertinent threads.

1) If an opponent is stunned, what's their DB? Is there any penalty?

3 factors that have been mentioned.
1 - No attacking
2 - Only half of your OB can be applied for parry
3 - +20 to everyone else's OB against you

2) Are there any "mook" rules for monsters?

It is a matter of tweaking down the monsters in the Core book. They are developed at heroic levels (550 stat points).  I'll put together a summary of the impact that would take these heroic level creatures down to average (400 stats - all at 50).

3) How do you GMs out there handle task difficulty for lower level characters? It seemed like people failed a lot at certain tasks last night (Chi Focus, Tracking...).

As stated previously, lower level characters normally try easier tasks.  If your 2nd level thief is trying to open the master crafted lock on the King's vault then either they are not being realistic or the GM is not being realistic.

4) What about multiple attempts at tasks? If they fail the first time, do you let them keep trying till they get it?

If the task is such that continued effort increase the chance of being successful, then treat it as a % check.   The harper reviewing books in a library repeatedly executes % checks until finally he exceeds 100% and is successful.

On general stuff...
5) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating creatures? It seems like there may be a way to "point balance" the process, but nothing is really listed in the core book. Also, would these same rules help scale the sample creatures in the corebook?

Yes, I believe they are planned for the Bestiary, but Nicholas would need to confirm.  There is definitely a point balance process in place.  Scaling the existing creatures with that... I'm sure it will be possible. Not sure if that is the direction that the section will be written towards, but maybe we can add some notes as to how to do it.

6) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating new species, professions or talents (in the same vein as above)? My fantasy setting has a menagerie of species and it would be fun to add new options to the game but I also don't want to break something.

I believe that may be planned for a future product. Nicholas would need to confirm. IMO it is a must have...

7) How close is the bestiary? This seems like a vital component in the Quartet of HARP! Do you need play-testers? I have a group assembled all learning this thing at the same time...

Nicholas would need to comment on both questions.

I hope that helps!
Welcome to HARP....

[dagorhir]

Yes, I believe they are planned for the Bestiary, but Nicholas would need to confirm.  There is definitely a point balance process in place.  Scaling the existing creatures with that... I'm sure it will be possible. Not sure if that is the direction that the section will be written towards, but maybe we can add some notes as to how to do it.

IMO that is a must have so that we can create well balanced custom creatures.

I believe that may be planned for a future product. Nicholas would need to confirm. IMO it is a must have...

I agree with this also

[RandalThor]

It's an OB modifier found on Page 92 of the core book.

Ah, thanks, and that would be pg. 91 of the newly updated book (as of 2-weeks ago, at least). It would be nice to have that under the Stunned description though...

[Falenthal]

1) If an opponent is stunned, what's their DB? Is there any penalty?

The 2 biggest effects of being stunned are that they cannot attack and can only use half of their OB to defend with, it says nothing about loosing anything from their DB. If the critical that delivered the stun has a penalty attached, that can reduce the Quickness bonus to their DB, but only down to 0, not below.

Just a quick note related to this: When someone is stunned, he can only parry with half his OB. But I think I remember the rules saying that this parry must be considered a Full Parry, therefore granting an additional +10 to DB.
That makes: Half OB to parry, +10 bonus for Full Parry, -20 because attacker has a +20 OB.
In other words, if the stunned character is attacked once again by the same aggressor, his DB gets Half his OB -10.

Am I wrong?

[dagorhir]

It's an OB modifier found on Page 92 of the core book.

Ah, thanks, and that would be pg. 91 of the newly updated book (as of 2-weeks ago, at least). It would be nice to have that under the Stunned description though...

I looked at my printed copy, since that quicker than opening the pdf, but it's on page 92 in the pdf that I downloaded on July 15th. 

[RandalThor]

It's an OB modifier found on Page 92 of the core book.

Ah, thanks, and that would be pg. 91 of the newly updated book (as of 2-weeks ago, at least). It would be nice to have that under the Stunned description though...

I looked at my printed copy, since that quicker than opening the pdf, but it's on page 92 in the pdf that I downloaded on July 15th. 

Great, another update...

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

1) If an opponent is stunned, what's their DB? Is there any penalty?

An opponent may parry with up to half their OB. They may claim armor, shield, etc. components of DB. Anyone fighting them can add +20 to their attack.

2) Are there any "mook" rules for monsters?

No. You can however reduce the monsters in power by lowering their stats.

3) How do you GMs out there handle task difficulty for lower level characters? It seemed like people failed a lot at certain tasks last night (Chi Focus, Tracking...).
4) What about multiple attempts at tasks? If they fail the first time, do you let them keep trying till they get it?

Low-level characters who try things beyond their skill will fail. In some cases, they can take extra time or try again, but not always

On general stuff...
5) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating creatures? It seems like there may be a way to "point balance" the process, but nothing is really listed in the core book. Also, would these same rules help scale the sample creatures in the corebook?

There will be guidance for scaling monsters in the Bestiary. There may well not be room to include the full creature rules but we'll see when more of the Bestiary is ready.

6) Is there going to be any notes/rules on creating new species, professions or talents (in the same vein as above)? My fantasy setting has a menagerie of species and it would be fun to add new options to the game but I also don't want to break something.

I am in discussion with a prospective writer for a sourcebook on new races and cultures. More professions and talents will appear .

7) How close is the bestiary? This seems like a vital component in the Quartet of HARP! Do you need play-testers? I have a group assembled all learning this thing at the same time...

Not enough written to give a public date yet.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

It's an OB modifier found on Page 92 of the core book.

Ah, thanks, and that would be pg. 91 of the newly updated book (as of 2-weeks ago, at least). It would be nice to have that under the Stunned description though...

I looked at my printed copy, since that quicker than opening the pdf, but it's on page 92 in the pdf that I downloaded on July 15th. 

It's page 92 in both. If you type 92 in the page number box, it will take you to page 92 (yes, I know it says 91 of 203 but that's Adobe legerdemain to handle page covers etc. so that the page numbers are the same in both formats).

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Zut]

1) If an opponent is stunned, what's their DB? Is there any penalty?

The 2 biggest effects of being stunned are that they cannot attack and can only use half of their OB to defend with, it says nothing about loosing anything from their DB. If the critical that delivered the stun has a penalty attached, that can reduce the Quickness bonus to their DB, but only down to 0, not below.

Just a quick note related to this: When someone is stunned, he can only parry with half his OB. But I think I remember the rules saying that this parry must be considered a Full Parry, therefore granting an additional +10 to DB.
That makes: Half OB to parry, +10 bonus for Full Parry, -20 because attacker has a +20 OB.
In other words, if the stunned character is attacked once again by the same aggressor, his DB gets Half his OB -10.

Am I wrong?

Sorry to dig out an "old" thread, but I was curious as to the answer to this question. So what about the bonus for Full Parry?

[RandalThor]

Personally, I wouldn't grant it as the stun is supposed to be bad - unless the player made a real stink about it. (I am not going to cause dire unrest in a game over a +/- 10.)