Topic: What is the movement rate of Water Bubble?

[providence13]

I couldn't find it in the book.
Is it the caster's BMR? 1/2 BMR might sound right for underwater.

We're talking 17th/19th lvl spells. As Mystic Base-Liquid Alteration 16. Command Current can speed a surface vessel by 50'/rnd the underwater should be less. That's a lot of water to displace; 10' radius and 20' radius for True.

[rdanhenry]

Another issue is the duration of "C", with text that requires concentration to move the bubble, but allows it to rise without concentration, which implies some other duration.

[providence13]

Duration after C is "while under water", IMHO. When it reaches the surface, our bubble will burst. This implies everything in the bubble is then dumped in the water.

But with WWTrue, the bubble can go to the ocean floor; any depth. The bubble isn't a shield, it only keeps out water (and resuscitates air). I'd bet that normal creatures would avoid the bubble (maybe not crafty cephalopods), but any one else could pass through. Although if a PC went from in to out, they might be crushed if deep enough.

Say someone does enter and kill/incapacitate the caster or distract them at a distance. Everything inside the bubble is safe (from water and pressure) and "will begin to rise to the surface".  How long does that take?

How much mass/weight can it handle? It sure reminds me of a movement spell. For 19th lvl, 10 people shouldn't be out of the question. Maybe it can move ~1 ton.

Another related question: I'm picturing a sphere, but it could be a dome; soap bubble.

[markc]

(Note I am providing this answer without having read the spell) 
  I am thinking of a more esoteric method of figuring out the movement rate; something like use Me, Re or the Magic Stat (or average or two or more stats) for the caster, then use the movement rules with the stat value provided.
  From there you can get normal movement and then you can adjust the movement value depending on how fast the caster wants to go by using the Meditation skill as the Sprinting skill or Long Distance Running skill. I would also caution the caster as fast movement might damage the bubble by running into things such as fish, etc. So slower movement around obstacles is almost a must and faster movement in open water can still be dangerous just like on land.


Hope that helps.
MDC

[providence13]

Thanks for the feedback!

Is there a chance of popping the bubble? I don't know. If you "hit an obstacle" would it just be in the radius of the bubble and now surrounded or partially surrounded by air? The bubble may not be able to take damage. Maybe it only keeps out water/pressure. I wonder if a water elemental would be slowed/stun passing through?

[markc]

Thanks for the feedback!

Is there a chance of popping the bubble? I don't know. If you "hit an obstacle" would it just be in the radius of the bubble and now surrounded or partially surrounded by air? The bubble may not be able to take damage. Maybe it only keeps out water/pressure. I wonder if a water elemental would be slowed/stun passing through?

 Yes that is a big factor on how you use the spell in your game world. Does it pop or can it pop? Can things move through it? ie shark goes in one side and out the other.
 IMHO a water elemental would not be stunned or slowed when moving through it as it can operate in non-liquid environments.
MDC 

[rdanhenry]

How exactly would it "pop"? It isn't a bubble in the sense of soap bubble. Unrestricted by magic, the air would contract under pressure (unless it is already pressurized to match the water, which would mean you'd have the same hazards as diving, and I think it's meant to safely take you to the surface when it rises) and rise to the surface. But popping makes no physical sense.

[markc]

  IMHO just because it hold out water under high pressure does not mean it cannot be popped. ie it holds out water and not creatures, rocks, etc.
MDC

[rdanhenry]

It can be entered, but that isn't popping.

[providence13]

I'm not going to allow it to pop. IMO, the only thing it does is keep out water/pressure and magically prevents the bends. My reasoning for the stunning effect/slow for water elementals is because the spell keeps out water and pressure. It could be argued that the spell effect only keeps out mundane water and the elemental is a magic effect. Then it could be an RR. Maybe the same for water bolts. That is, if water bolts work underwater..

If a group being protected by the spell is travelling deep underwater and approaches an underwater tunnel, maybe also protected by an air bubble, the two spell effects would not cancel each other out. The same for jagged rocks. I do not believe that sharks could swim in one side and out the other. I think they would avoid it and if coerced into entering the bubble, they would fall to the floor/bottom of the effect and begin to "drown" in air.

Would beings entering the bubble from the water be dry; clothes and all?

[Kristen Mork]

Would beings entering the bubble from the water be dry; clothes and all?

Given how dry many movie characters are when they leave the water, I would have to assume so.

[markc]

  I may be wrong but I thought that elemental beings were made up mostly of elemental material which is not the same as normal material.
MDC

[providence13]

If I understand correctly..

According to C&M, only Savants have no "core" and require magic weapons to hit and also always inflict additional crits from their elemental essence. This tells me that they are stonger than mundane elements.

All elementals are weaker and have a spirit lodged in the "core" and gathered material swirls about this focus/core. Gathered material is from the mundane plane and this is why you need an appropriate amount of the specific elemnet to summon them; large fire for weak fire  elemental.

F&I handles this a bit differently. They differentiate between Summoning and Gating.
1. Summoning calls forth the elementals spirit and creates the body from the provided elemental material; the large fire.

2. Gating opens a physical connection to the location of the creature (Elemental Plane) and pulls it through in it's physical body. IMHO, "magic" material.

[markc]

Providence13;
 Thanks for the info as I was thinking on #2 above the F&I example (and I think how it is handled in RM2 Elemental Comp, IIRC)
MDC