Topic: Upgrade from RM2 to Classic

[Tannin]

my group and I are currently playing a campaign using RM2, afaik it's almost the complete set of available rulebooks.
Unfortunately the books have been bought at the dawn of time (This is not exaggerated! It was a Tuesday) and they are slowly but surely crumbling to dust.
Therefore we would like to renew the collection without having to change rules. We thought about getting the RM Classic set as pdfs but we're thoroughly confused regarding the available books.
For example the companions 2-x haven't been re-released? Are they even relevant or were those information integrated into other books?
Afaik there are the following books for classic: Character Law, Spell Law, Arms Law, Creatures & Treasures, Companion 1 and Combat Companion .
Does this cover all rules/options from RM2? If not, is there a source for the old books as pdf?
Also the Combat Companion is somewhat elusive, it's not even listed on rpgnow? Does anyone know where to get it?

Thanks in advance. I hope this hasn't been discussed to death...

[intothatdarkness]

Much of the availability of Companions (as I understand it, at least) has to do with rights clearance). If they can't get permission from the authors (or can't locate them), then the book can't be reprinted.

From what I've seen, the Classic books are simply re-edited (and re-illustrated in many cases) versions of the original RM2 books. So Classic AL is more or less the same thing as RM2 AL.  And with the RM revision underway, it may be worth waiting to see what the new version looks like.

[yammahoper]

The original books are also on ebay, usually at a good price.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=rolemaster&_sacat=0

Seven pages of stuff, including a few GREAT deals on entire sets.

[Tannin]

Thanks for your replies. The GM is rather adamant about not switching rules so the "unified" system is probably no option for us. Ebay is also problematic since I'm not in the us (not even an english speaking country actually), so finding a local seller is almost impossible, it's be difficult to find a seller on ebay who's willing to ship to a foreign country. And postage -> ouch
That's one reason we'd prefer pdfs.
We'll probably buy the books that have been released as RMC and then gradually replace the remaining books with better copies if we find them.

Still: Does anyone know what the "combat companion" is? There is no counterpart in RM2 afaik?

[intothatdarkness]

Thanks for your replies. The GM is rather adamant about not switching rules so the "unified" system is probably no option for us. Ebay is also problematic since I'm not in the us (not even an english speaking country actually), so finding a local seller is almost impossible, it's be difficult to find a seller on ebay who's willing to ship to a foreign country. And postage -> ouch
That's one reason we'd prefer pdfs.
We'll probably buy the books that have been released as RMC and then gradually replace the remaining books with better copies if we find them.

Still: Does anyone know what the "combat companion" is? There is no counterpart in RM2 afaik?

There was an Arms Companion or something similar for RM2. I used it briefly, and then got rid of it. When it comes to the Companions, I actually ended up using I, II, and III (in parts, at least) and avoided the rest.

[yammahoper]

Combat Companion is a book I did not buy.  I have Martial Arts Companion and no desire to stop using it.

It is a companion to expand the realm of arms with combat styles and new skills and what not.  HARP has its own version too.  There is a description of the product in the RMC sales section.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

my group and I are currently playing a campaign using RM2, afaik it's almost the complete set of available rulebooks.
Unfortunately the books have been bought at the dawn of time (This is not exaggerated! It was a Tuesday) and they are slowly but surely crumbling to dust.
Therefore we would like to renew the collection without having to change rules. We thought about getting the RM Classic set as pdfs but we're thoroughly confused regarding the available books.
For example the companions 2-x haven't been re-released? Are they even relevant or were those information integrated into other books?
Afaik there are the following books for classic: Character Law, Spell Law, Arms Law, Creatures & Treasures, Companion 1 and Combat Companion .
Does this cover all rules/options from RM2? If not, is there a source for the old books as pdf?
Also the Combat Companion is somewhat elusive, it's not even listed on rpgnow? Does anyone know where to get it?

Thanks in advance. I hope this hasn't been discussed to death...

RM Classic Character Law, RM Classic Spell Law, RM Classic Arms Law and RM Classic Creatures & Treasures are available as pdfs now. Rolemaster Companion I is also available as a pdf.

The Campaign Law portion of RM2 Character Law & Campaign Law is actually in RMFRP Gamemaster Law. Also available as a pdf.

RM Classic Character Law, RM Classic Arms Law and RM Classic Creatures & Treasures are currently being processed in the OneBookShelf print-on-demand setup - I'm impatiently waiting on them exiting that process. Once they do, they will then be available in print format again. RM Classic Spell Law will follow as soon as we find a sufficiently high-res version of the cover.

Various RM2 products - Creatures & Treasures II, Creatures & Treasures III, Oriental Companion, Sea Law, etc. are available as scanned pdfs.

Other RM2 products are unavailable because we've either not been able to come to an agreement with the original authors or in most cases, we've not found the original authors.

Combat Companion is not available and will not be made available. Mjolnir failed to pay the artists who contributed to that book; its sales history does not warrant GCP investing our resources to either buy out all the artists or to commission new art.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[TAK]

Ebay is also problematic since I'm not in the us (not even an english speaking country actually), so finding a local seller is almost impossible, it's be difficult to find a seller on ebay who's willing to ship to a foreign country. And postage -> ouch

TBH, It's non of that is an issue, in fact most people ship worldwide and you can even short the search results by cost+shipping lowest first and then it will ask for your country and boom.

Postage varies, usually the companions are fairly cheap and of course you can combine in most "stores" on eBay.

If everything else fails, Noble Knight has a great online store, of course their RM2 stuff seems fairly expensive to some prices on eBay, but it's always in said quality and shipping is fairly fast and cheap.

[Tannin]

Thanks again for the replies. I'm now proud owner of RMC Character Law, Arms Law, Spell Law and Creatures & Treasures.
I just saw that the scanned pdfs are also searchable, neat.
Still a shame about the remaining old books. Combat Companion I think we can live without.

@TAK: well, shipping to germany costs 12-20$ and since most sellers have only 1 or 2 books each we'd probably end up paying well over 60$ in shipping alone. Still, ebay and Noble Knight are probably our best options to renew our collection for these books.

[WoeRie]

I bought all my RMC books in Germany at www.fanen.de. This was shortly AFTER Mjolnir stopped selling them. So, you should try there, maybe they have still a book or two left.

Regarding the Combat Companion... I bought it, read most parts of it, and afterwards I moved it into the cellar

[pndrev]

I'm the GM in question.

So there is no chance of RM Companion II getting published as PDF? It's probably the most-used book in my collection, with the skill descriptions and development cost tables. And given it's age of now a venerable 20 years, I constantly fear for it's wellbeing, despite some attempts with adhesive tape.

[Lord Garth]

I'm the GM in question.

So there is no chance of RM Companion II getting published as PDF? It's probably the most-used book in my collection, with the skill descriptions and development cost tables. And given it's age of now a venerable 20 years, I constantly fear for it's wellbeing, despite some attempts with adhesive tape.

Welcome to the forums pndrev.

I've bought three copies of RMCII from Ebay over the years. And I'm from Spain, so postage is the same of an issue for me, most of the time no issue to be honest. Truth is there's always a couple of deals out there, you just need to be a little patient at times.

A wee derail incoming, but I think you should probably at least check RMU. I get the feeling they are cooking up something neat. I've stayed RM2 for over two decades but I'm most likely going to make the jump to RMU if what we've been hearing comes true.

Back on topic, EBAY is your friend to get RM2 or RMC companion books or other material.

[TAK]

@TAK: well, shipping to germany costs 12-20$ and since most sellers have only 1 or 2 books each we'd probably end up paying well over 60$ in shipping alone. Still, ebay and Noble Knight are probably our best options to renew our collection for these books.

Yep, same for me, I'm in Sweden, so I'm paying the same for shipping, but the $ is in the tank right now (of course, so is the € now, double good for me since we use Krona), so the shipping and price might still end up cheaper than you might think.

Also, you might wanna check Amazon, they might have cheaper shipping, I've gotten quite a few books on the cheap from there as well and if you're lucky you might get some from Germany since you have your local Amazon.

Of course I shouldn't say anything, as buying the stuff as PDF is good for GCP/ICE, but personally I prefer the print version and I know a lot of other "old schoolers" who do as well.

[intothatdarkness]

I'm the GM in question.

So there is no chance of RM Companion II getting published as PDF? It's probably the most-used book in my collection, with the skill descriptions and development cost tables. And given it's age of now a venerable 20 years, I constantly fear for it's wellbeing, despite some attempts with adhesive tape.

From what I've seen, the chances of a companion being published as PDF are relative to the number of authors involved. The more authors, the more clearance, and thus the chance of getting all bits cleared goes down drastically. If I recall, RMC I was the work of a relatively small number of folks, as was Sea Law and most of the other things that have been revived in PDF form. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing things like Outlaw and Pirates (along with Vikings) reappear in PDF as my print copies are getting a bit worn, but I know it's not likely.

[JimiSue]

To those whose books are nearing the end of their life - there's nothing stopping you from scanning your own copies into PDF, so at least they don't deteriorate any further...

[Thom @ ICE]

Very true....  But having recently tried to go paperless and having scanned hundreds of 1-2 page documents I can only say I wish I could have paid $20 and had it done for me.  I don't have that kind of time any more, and when I do, I'd rather be gaming than scanning...

On those products not yet available in pdf - don't give up hope. We're still looking for authors, and others are still in process.

Feel free to scan for your own use, just please don't put them out on the internet anywhere.  Thanks!

[Tannin]

I appologize for being quiet so long. Just wanted to thank you all for your replies.
It's also great to hear ICE is still trying to contact the authors. I'm glad you've not given up on the old-school rules

[stacktrace]

Too bad about the Combat Companion.  I liked the combat charts it included better than those in Arms Law.  Mainly because the Armor types seemed better balanced.  Heavier armor consistantly made you more likely to be hit, but less likely to take serious criticals.  In Arms law there are many armor types that seem worse than wearing none at all.

So I guess I am a fan of the book.  It essentially includes 4 sections.

1) New Professions: Champion, Elemental Warrior and Venterer (basically Arms hybrid classes, one for each of the 3 realms)

2) Armor by the Piece, a completely rewritten armor system in which you mix and match each individual piece.  Each piece grants DB bonuses and manuever/shooting/casting penalties.  The chest piece also defines the overall armor type (on a scale of 1-10 only, to be used with the new combat charts in section 4).
All Armor manuever skills are dropped in favor of a single Armor skill when using this system.

3) Combat Styles.  These rules replace the existing weapon, martial arts, and directed spells skills.  Characters instead by Combat Styles, which work with one more more weapons and groups each.  Combat Styles also have traits (Two Weapon Combo/Extra Defense/Higher Initiative) as well as Special Manuevers (Disarm/Block/Riposte).
The GM must build the styles for his world, and then players spend DP to learn them.

4) New Condensed Combat charts.  There is roughly one combat chart per weapon group (short blades/bashing/bow/biting/cold) that use the new armor types introduced in section 2.  Each combat chart also includes its own critical hits chart, so only a single page needs to be referenced.

All sections except for the new professions in section 1 can be used in RMSS/RMFRP. 

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

2) Armor by the Piece, a completely rewritten armor system in which you mix and match each individual piece.

IMO, the best part of the CC and how I would like RMU's official armour rules to be.