Topic: Shield Bash + Parry?

[Karizma]

One of my players wanted to make a Shield Bash with his Full Shield (he does have Shield Training) and Parry with his Longsword.

I said no, you can either shield bash, or attack with your longsword.
He argued that if he uses his shield as a weapon, he should be able to parry with the weapon in his hand because it's available (to parry with).

This went on for a good ten minutes.  I held my ruling of no, and we moved on.  What would you guys have ruled?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

HARP rules, page 93, in the description for Shield Bash, it specifically states that performing a shield bash replaces the character's normal attack action for the round.

Parrying is a reduction of one's OB to increase their DB. It is part of an attack action.

In order to perform a Parry using the Long Sword, while performing a Shield Bash, the character would have to be able to perform 2 attacks per round somehow.

However, you might have given him a shield bonus for the longsword (Unusual Object - from the Shield table on page 91).

[Ecthelion]

Martial Law (ML) contains two Combat Styles that your player might be interested in:
- Shielding Weapon allows a secondary weapon (but not a shield) to be used defensively while the main weapon is actively used to parry. This is the only style I am aware of that allows the weapon in the one hand to be used offensively while the other is used defensively.
- Weapon & Shield allows both a weapon and a shield to be used for attacking in combat, thus making two attacks in a round. This is a bit similar to Two Weapon Combat. In both cases, TWC and this style, any amount parried is subtracted from both attacks.

Without a Combat Style the character simply can only attack with one weapon (this may be the shield, if shield bash was learned as separate OB) and the other weapon/shield is simply held in hand but will not grant an additional attack. A shield or a weapon like a Main Gauche will grant a bonus to the DB if thus held in hand, but not more.

So I would have ruled just as you did.

[Karizma]

Thank you!  I can see where the logic comes from, but keeping in mind that a round is two seconds long, I doubt one will have time to perform a full shield bash while parrying.  Those things are heavy!

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Thank you!  I can see where the logic comes from, but keeping in mind that a round is two seconds long, I doubt one will have time to perform a full shield bash while parrying.  Those things are heavy!

First off - unless the character has a skill or a spell that allows for two attacks per round, then they cannot, in any fashion, parry with a weapon while performing a shield bash. That is the point of what I quoted from the rulebook (how the shield bash takes the place of the normal attack action (and how a parry is part of a normal attack action).

You ruled correctly.

Secondly, If a character has a style that allows for shield bashing and fighting at the same time, then the weight of the shield doesn't actually matter since the character would have been trained in using it in such a manner, and thus used to the weight factors involved. However, when using such a style, if the character reduced his OB to parry with the weapon, then he would also reduce his OB with the Shield Bash (which we are presuming your player did not want to do... heheh).

According to the information you gave us (skill in Long Sword, and Shield Training, but no Sword & Shield skill), then character would not be allowed to parry while performing the shield bash for the simple reason that the shield bash replaces his normal attack.

Put another way, if he does not make an attack with the Long Sword, then he cannot parry with it because a parry is part of an attack.

[Karizma]

I probably should have given the whole situation  .

He has Longsword, Weapon & Shield Style (Martial Law), and Shield Training Talent.

I see Weapon & Shield giving two attacks per round, one with Weapon and the other with Shield.  However, the player did not wish to make two attacks per round, but rather make a regular Shield Bash, and using his full weapon's OB to parry.

But I'll consider him getting to parry with the style's OB and making the regular shield bash attack, but I still don't see that as reasonable.  Now I would allow an allotment of the OBs of both attacks into parry, so you still make both attacks but at a "hesitation" to defend one's self, but I don't see a FULL parry with one weapon, and a FULL attack with another unless there's a style, which Weapon & Shield is not designed for.  It's designed for attacking with both.

Also, it just makes sense for me to attack with the weapon and defend with the shielding object than to switch it up. 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Under those conditions, then yes, should be allowed to parry with the weapon while making a shield bash attack. However, anything moved from OB to DB is moved from BOTH attacks.

If his OB for the style is 60, and he is using a Full Shield (+15 Untrained; +30 Trained), then he has the following possibilities:

1) He can make 1 attack (OB 60) and receive max DB from Shield (+30)

2) He can make 2 attacks - Weapon (OB 60), Shield Bash (OB 30), and get +15 to DB.

Now, if he wants to parry using the weapon (say putting 20 points into Parrying), then he would have the following:

Weapon OB 40 (50-20 = 40); Shield Bash OB 10 (30 - 20 = 10); +35 to DB (15 + 20 = 35).

He cannot do a full parry with the weapon and a full attack with the shield, you are correct there.