Topic: Spell Question: Staying, please help!

[geldoon]

I'm not too clear on what Staying does. Staying I, for example, says: exerts 1lb of pressure on a person or object. Object cannot be moved by Staying alone, and pressure can only be exerted in one direction.  I know that it can only be used to counter another force like gravity but how does it affect the game? Does it mean that you can stop or slow an object from falling? Any help would be appreciated. I'm actually using the previous version of HARP, the one before they had to call it HARP for licensing reasons but the e.g. above is from RM2 because it is worded the same except for the weight given and so I assume it works the same. I thought at first that it meant you could stop an object of 1lb from falling but the "or person" part threw me, there aren't 1lb people after all. I'm sure I'm making a simple blunder and many of you are going "derrr" but as the GM I think I should try to get it right, even at the risk of embarrassment  . Thanks for any help.

[Merkir]

I think it's a good question. This is why I love RM spells so much. They don't have to be powerful to impress me. It's the fact that they cover such a wide variety of seemingly innocuous effects. Some may say, "why does this spell exist? It's useless!", while I say, "Wow, so glad it's not another magic missile".

Back on topic, Staying I, like many other spells, is a fairly weak precursor to the more powerful II, V & True versions.

How could it be used? Let your imagination run wild...

1.  The evil mage's rat familiar is about to scamper out of the room through its special rat flap - with your priceless diamond! You cast Staying I on the rat flap - it's trapped inside until you can catch it.

2. The tavern darts competition is just about to see your friend beaten by the town "dart shark". You cast Staying I on his dart which deflects it from the bullseye.

3. All the townsfolk gather in the town square for the annual "first snowflake of winter" ceremony. Everyone wants to be the lucky one to have it fall upon them. Finally a snowflake falls, heading right for lucky Timmy... slowly.. slowly... everyone watching it, spellbound, hardly breathing as it floats slantwise and calmly towards Timmy's forehead... then STOPS, in mid air, 6 inches from him. Someone gasps, then as the seconds tick by, everyone gasps and mouths go wide... 20 seconds... 30! The snowflake is motionless... Timmy's eyes dart back and forth but he doesn't dare move... then inexplicably the snowflake falls the last 6 inches to Timmy's forehead.  The whole Town Square is absolutely silent, incredulous... before erupting in exclamations of merriment!  A lone figure smiles wryly from behind the wishing well. A legend has been born...

4. You really want to impress the captain's beautiful daughter who comes into the apothecary store once a week where you apprentice at a low table near the counter. But as a lowly apprentice she won't give you the time of day. This week though is different. When you see her coming you arrange for your quill & ink stand to be floating exactly 2 feet above the desk in plain sight to all. As she walks in at first she doesn't notice, but, sensing something different, her eyes are drawn to your table and the amazing sight of the floating quill set. You reach for the items nonchalantly... and your eyes finally meet... captured by her gaze... but you hesitate too long and the spell expires, dropping and smashing the ink bottle, splattering you all over in total embarrassment. She giggles and runs out with her supplies, but not before throwing you a parting glance over her shoulder...

I love these types of spells. 

[VladD]

As a physics enthusiast I see the spells as follows:

Telekenesis: apply force in a direction on a subject.

Staying: de-apply force from a certain direction from an object.

So staying could well be used as a counter spell against telekinesis, or it could reduce friction, or increase it (by reducing applied force that tries to override friction)

That means that in Merkir's examples (which are btw very nice examples) only 1 and 2 are achieved by using staying spells, the others need telekinesis.

But the dart example is excellent. The Dart-shark has a certain way of throwing the dart, if he inexplicably needs to use one pound MORE force to launch the dart accurately, he will surely fail, perhaps landing the dart in the floor.

Imagine sliding down a chute: you might use Staying to increase the work of friction (or lessen the pull of gravity) and slow you down.

It could also be used (if the GM permits) to create instances of "picking up an empty milk carton, but it is actually full", or swords need 50 pounds more force to get drawn. It is a fun spell, albeit not extremely useful.

[Merkir]

Not sure why you say examples 3 & 4 need telekinesis. On the contrary, they are prime examples of using Staying to counteract the force due to gravity, as long as the objects are less than 1 lb.  Indeed your own defn for Staying applies perfectly.

[Merkir]

But the dart example is excellent. The Dart-shark has a certain way of throwing the dart, if he inexplicably needs to use one pound MORE force to launch the dart accurately, he will surely fail, perhaps landing the dart in the floor.

Agree, although I was more thinking along the lines of applying Staying nearly perpendicular to the direction of flight. If you apply it perpendicularly, it will have no effect. Just off perpendicular and due to force-vector application it will slightly deflect. In fact it would almost certainly have to be done this way so that the dart-shark has less chance of realising something is wrong with his dart. I'm assuming here that timing is such that it would need to be cast on the dart just before it is thrown, although some GMs may allow the caster to time it perfectly while in mid air, or allow a dice roll to try to time it right.

It could also be used (if the GM permits) to create instances of "picking up an empty milk carton, but it is actually full", or swords need 50 pounds more force to get drawn. It is a fun spell, albeit not extremely useful.

More good examples. It would be fun to put these into mini-scenarios like I did above.

If I was playing a char with this spell I'd have a ball.

[geldoon]

Just to make sure I've got this right, though I understand that there is some interpretation on the part of the GM, the group of spells won't allow you to say pick up an object but can stop the object or person or slow or impede it if it already falling or moving or if someone or thing is trying to move the object such as gravity, another force spell like telekinesis or levitate, or muscle force. Is that about right? It does raise a question; You both agree that the example provided by Merkir (and I thought all the examples given by Merkir and VladD were great and very helpful and written beautifully, especially 3. and 4. - I wouldn't mind playing with either of you as GMs, very evocative) concerning the darts is a good example of how it is used, does that mean it could be used in the same way against an arrow, though I assume it would need to be a higher level Staying as the force used to propel an arrow is greater than 1lb? And what your saying is that it can't be used to deflect the dart but can impede it's flight by essentially slowing it down? I'm sorry if it seems I'm having difficulty understanding your answers, it's just that I have a very difficult player who likes to argue every point (though more often than not he is wrong), so it is important that I have a good grasp on the spell. I'm sure I know what your saying, I just need to make certain I understand or we'll spend half a session arguing about it  . Thanks to both of you for your help.

[Merkir]

Just to make sure I've got this right, though I understand that there is some interpretation on the part of the GM, the group of spells won't allow you to say pick up an object but can stop the object or person or slow or impede it if it already falling or moving or if someone or thing is trying to move the object such as gravity, another force spell like telekinesis or levitate, or muscle force. Is that about right?

That's the way I see it.

... does that mean it could be used in the same way against an arrow, though I assume it would need to be a higher level Staying as the force used to propel an arrow is greater than 1lb? And what your saying is that it can't be used to deflect the dart but can impede it's flight by essentially slowing it down?

At the very least it will impede the flight, and some GMs may wish to interpret it to deflect by setting the "Staying" direction of resistance at an angle to the direction of flight, much like shown here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/vector-addition-d_320.html . The interesting part is the wording of the spell, "Object cannot be moved by Staying alone" so GMs who are sticklers may wish to say it's purely resistive in the direction of flight only.  In this case you would still cast the spell so that the Staying direction is just off perpendicular, impeding just a little and causing the flight of the dart to drop just a little bit (ie. a small loss of power). If you cast it so that the Staying direction was directly in opposition to the direction of flight it would likely cause the dart to drop to the floor as VladD said. Hope that make sense.

[geldoon]

Yes, it does. Based on that, in the case of an arrow I'd say it would modify the OB of the attack, the higher the amount of force affected the the higher the negative modifier until you get up to the higher level versions which may stop the arrow causing it to drop. I say that because it wouldn't really be the wait of the arrow but the force projected by the bow on the arrow. Does that sound likely?

[Merkir]

That's the way I would do it. And without trying to make things too difficult, I would make the penalty proportional to the distance from archer to target, since the longer the Staying force is applied, the better the effect will be. Remember also the spell has a 100' range.

[VladD]

I see what you mean now: so a pen or snowflake already in the air can be held up there with a staying spell, but to make it go against the direction of gravity and move on its own volition you'd need the telekinesis.

[Merkir]

Exactly.

[geldoon]

That's the way I would do it. And without trying to make things too difficult, I would make the penalty proportional to the distance from archer to target, since the longer the Staying force is applied, the better the effect will be. Remember also the spell has a 100' range.

True, I didn't think of that. I assume the spell caster would have to use the opportunity option so as to react to the missile fire. Remember I'm not actually using Rolemaster or Harp but Merp (I hope mentioning the name is not a violation of the forums copyright rules and apologies if it does) so the combat sequence rules may be different.

[Peter R]

Staying can be really useful.

Imagine a small see-saw or rocker you hold one end down and apply staying to keep it down. You then put a weight on the other end. You now have a trigger than can set off any trap or device that can be triggered by tipping something over or pulling a string. The Staying disappears and a candle gets tugged off the mantlepiece and onto the paper strewn desk, or a flask of oil is tipped over. The trap could be set off from 100' away when the character is in plain sight and nowhere near the place where the fire started.