Topic: Spell Ward

[Kristen Mork]

Spell Ward (at least the Arcane version) states:
The caster prevents the casting of one single spell from outside of the area to inside of the area.  The caster declares the specific spell to be prevented when this spell is cast ... The intruding spell gets a RR ...  If the intruding spell passes its RR, it may enter the area unhindered.

So, as best I can tell, a Leaving spell (range: self, AOE: caster) could not be blocked.  The spell is cast outside the area of the spell ward, allowing the caster to appear within the spell ward.  But, a strict reading implies that the spell is not cast from outside to within.  (It would stop a Magician from casting Leaving (range: 10', AOE: target) from outside the ward on his buddy within the ward, but that's not really what the warder is worried about.)

Does this sound right?  Or is there some other (consistent) interpretation of "casting [a] spell from outside of the area to inside of the area?"

[providence13]

What if it read "The caster prevents the casting of one single spell inside of the area".  I think the "from outside to inside" is confusing matters.
IMHO, the intent is to block a specific spell. I would allow it to block Leaving, Teleport, Longdoor, Gate, etc. Any one of those spells.

The spell still gets a RR.

[Kristen Mork]

Inside the area is a (very) different effect than outside to inside.  As the ward is phrased, if you are within the ward, you can cast a Firebolt at the caster (and importantly the caster can cast a Firebolt at any target because he's in the area of effect).  The spell really is intended to stop spells uni-directionally.

In our recent game, the Arcanist wanted to stop the infernal trogs from Long Dooring next to the mages.  But, according to our reading, even though the trog started outside the area of effect and ended up inside the area of effect, the spell was cast from outside to outside (given range self!).

(There are other spells, I think, for stopping a spell within a given ward, glyph, etc.)

[Thom @ ICE]

A spell cast outside and passing through the ward is far different than area of effect or range.

Consider spells that grant invisibility, flight, shapechange, and as you pointed out, teleportation (of sorts).  I would say that any spell that is cast outside which is intentionally blocked by the ward can not enter the area without the RR.  I would handle it by performing the RR and if the RR fails, then let them know that the spell will be dispelled if they continue.   For longdoor or other teleportation-like spells, they get stopped at the edge of the ward. For invis, flight, shapechange, etc. the spell simply gets dispelled if they continue into the area.

Note - This is just my gut interpretation.

[Marc R]

I'd say that leaving would be impacted. . .the spell is indeed cast outside the ward, and having an effect inside the ward, so it should fail.

[Kristen Mork]

So, you would reword the spell as follows:

"The caster prevents one single spell from passing from outside of the area to inside of the area.  An active spell that crosses the boundary of the ward is dispelled (unless it makes an RR)."

[Marc R]

I dunno, it doesn't actually say that. . .but the leaving is being "cast from outside to inside" if the caster is outside and the effect is inside, it's being cast across from outside to inside.

Like, if you made a ward vs invisibility my reading of that would say:

If you cast invisibility on yourself, then walked in, no effect.
If you cast invisibility on yourself, then walked out, no effect.
If you cast invisibility from outside on a target inside, RR required.
If you cast invisibility from inside on a target outside, no effect.

That change in wording would cause it to force an RR in all four instances.

[providence13]

Is it understood that part of a translocation's AoE is the destination as well?
I don't know.

I hadn't read the spell that carefully until now. Good topic!

[Kristen Mork]

I dunno, it doesn't actually say that. . .but the leaving is being "cast from outside to inside" if the caster is outside and the effect is inside, it's being cast across from outside to inside.

Like, if you made a ward vs invisibility my reading of that would say:

If you cast invisibility on yourself, then walked in, no effect.
If you cast invisibility on yourself, then walked out, no effect.
If you cast invisibility from outside on a target inside, RR required.
If you cast invisibility from inside on a target outside, no effect.

That change in wording would cause it to force an RR in all four instances.

By "crossing the boundary" I meant walking from outside to inside.  So, of your four cases, 1) and 3) would be the only two that trigger an RR.

[Kristen Mork]

To make Marc's example more complicated: Imagine a Ward against Leaping.

Caster	Target	Destination	Effect
Inside	Inside	Inside	OK
Inside	Inside	Outside	OK
Inside	Outside	Inside	? ?
Inside	Outside	Outside	OK
Outside	Inside	Inside	RR
Outside	Inside	Outside	RR
Outside	Outside	Inside	? ?
Outside	Outside	Outside	OK

I think it's clear that if the caster is outside the ward, and the target is inside the ward, the spell must make an RR.  But, does it matter what the target does with the spell?  Does it matter if the spell is Leaping vs. Leaving?  Does it matter if the Leaper (target) passes through the Ward, but doesn't land in it?  Would the same thing be true for Leaving?  What about Long Door?

[Marc R]

Leaping is different from leaving, in that by the time you're jumping, the spell has already completed, it's not like you'd jump, intersect the ward, fail the RR and long door back to your original starting location. I don't think the destination of the leap is relevant the way the leaving destination is.

To offer a 5th example. . .what if you cast invisibility on yourself, walked out, then walked back in?

Per the change, #5 would provoke an RR, while per the original, it wouldn't.

Part of the logic of the "cast across" is the active magic crossing the line in the outside-in direction. . .and "Cast" implies the RR needs to be resolved immediately after the spell casting roll, not that the ward has an ips post facto effect on magic previously cast.

Otherwise you could make a ward vs Weapon I spell, and dispel magic items entering the radius, while the intent here would seem to be preventing you from casting Weapon I from outside the radius on an item inside it. . .if that makes sense.

I'd say that any situation in which the spell being cast crosses the radius after spell casting is resolved, and before spell effect starts, are the ones it applies to.

It's an odd wording, that spell.

[Kristen Mork]

Now imagine a Warrior Mage (WM) standing just outside a "Parrying Illusion" ward fighting a Tatzelwurm (T) just inside the ward.  When WM casts the Parrying Illusion (range=self, but the "victim" gets an RR to ignore the illusion, per the spell), does his spell need to make an RR?  The target of the spell is WM, but the parrying illusion's effect involves T.

What if WM is also fighting a Vampiric Unicorn (VU) that's outside the ward?  Now, one of the "victims" of the spell is inside the ward and one is outside.  If the RR is failed, does the entire spell fail?  What if VU is inside the ward?  Does WM's spell make a single RR, or one for each target?

[Marc R]

IMO the spell would need to make an RR to pass through the ward to affect targets inside, but would not be cancelled for the targets outside if it failed the RR. . .those inside would be shielded from the effect, the spell is not cancelled. The ward description doesn't say cancelled or dispelled, just that the effect cannot enter the field?

[markc]

  In general I am in full agreement with Marc R but...
  In general I also to just remember RM combat it is not stationary in any way. I often House Rule that "action" in combat can drift + or -; 5' in any given direction. Keeping this in mind questions about casters right on said line can be touchy and sometimes I require a % roll to see just where they might be. Or you can use an Orientation roll or some other skill if you prefer. Maybe Tactics- Magical Combat or something else.


 As to the example the spell ward in question prevents a spell from being cast into an AoE it does not prevent the effects of a spell entering an AoE. So a Spell Ward that prevents against some type of gas cloud spell would not work if the gas cloud was formed outside the AoE and then drifted inside the AoE.
 The same would go for the combat illusion spell as the spell is cast outside the AoE but it can "affect" (the spells effect) things inside the AoE.


 But again those are my interpretations of the spell in question and not official in any way. For me to make an official ruling (I would need to have that job first) and I would have to do a lot of looking at past RM Rulings, Spells from RM2/RMS/RMSS/RMFRP and maybe some past authors notes if I could find them.
 Again glad I do not have that tough job


MDC

[Marc R]

I think there was another discussion relating to a cancel essence AOE vs Sleep or Firebolt. . .that it would force an RR on the former but not the latter, since the latter is done forming and once the E attack is in motion, it's a physical chunk of moving fire that can't be simply dispelled. . if I'm recalling correctly.

[Ynglaur]

Marc R: I think you're correct regarding the Cancel Essence AOE vs. Firebolts.

[providence13]

Leaping is different from leaving, in that by the time you're jumping, the spell has already completed, it's not like you'd jump, intersect the ward, fail the RR and long door back to your original starting location. I don't think the destination of the leap is relevant the way the leaving destination is.

Sorry I don't have a pg # but isn't a safe (magical) landing included in the Leaping spell? Other than that, I agree with your assessment.
Now I know why I made it an AoE, RR or spell doesn't work and didn't worry about outside/inside.

[markc]

IIRC yes a safe landing is included.
   ...But IMHO that is on level ground and as a House Rule on difficult ground I have the caster make an Acrobatics roll to land. Also IMHO Acrobatics is a very important skill also for flying so most casters will have ranks in the skill.   

MDC