Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Shadow World => Topic started by: Wōdwulf Seaxaning on October 30, 2008, 01:51:50 PM
-
Would their be any desire to see published a quarterly Shadowworld PDF based supplement ? In the vein of HB & EA about 15 pages . It'd be used for Terry & a few select authors to update the older SW supplements to bring them in line with Xa-ar .Then eventually a print supplement could compile the various articles into themed books. Such as a Jaiman sourcebook that compiles the Jaiman related articles & so forth . Even though I don't own a computer right now I'd be willing to purchase such a supplement.
-
I would love it. Shadow World seems to be the world I go back to again and again.
-
If there is desire for such a thing, we (Guild Companion Publications) would organise and publish it.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
I'd certainly be interested.
-
I would be interested for sure.
-
I'd like to say I'd be interested, since I want to support Shadow World as much as possible. But I cant really see myself paying for PDFs of non-terry stuff. (Well, Norek I would probably buy if I didnt already have a good dead-tree copy)
(Refering to the Old non-Terry stuff that is, I'm all for a "Approved by Terry" program with new material using Terry as writers version of Linus Torvalds)
-
I'd buy it.
BTW, is Emer III going to be the southwest or the southeast quadrant? I can't remember...
-
Since I posted this topic I'd buy it for sure . What are Terry's thoughts on this ? Since I'd want him to be the primary writer for this . We already have GC interested the idea,now we need ICE & Terry since they'll be publishing it LOL.
-
Since I posted this topic I'd buy it for sure . What are Terry's thoughts on this ? Since I'd want him to be the primary writer for this . We already have GC interested the idea,now we need ICE & Terry since they'll be publishing it LOL.
No, we would be publishing it, not ICE. If there's interest and Terry is happy to be involved as a writer/editor, then it will happen.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
Interested here as well
-
I'd buy it.
BTW, is Emer III going to be the southwest or the southeast quadrant? I can't remember...
Southeast according to Terry at last update.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
Ok..sorry for the misquote.Either way I'd buy it for sure.Viva la Shadowworld!!!
Since I posted this topic I'd buy it for sure . What are Terry's thoughts on this ? Since I'd want him to be the primary writer for this . We already have GC interested the idea,now we need ICE & Terry since they'll be publishing it LOL.
No, we would be publishing it, not ICE. If there's interest and Terry is happy to be involved as a writer/editor, then it will happen.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
Very much liking this idea :)
-
I'd be interested, but not if I had to ransom it each month/quarter -- that method's cumbersome and I'd prefer a straightforward subscription model. I think we've ransomed enough of Terry's work to demonstrate we'll buy it.
-
If it's the 15 pages or so that was originally suggested, I wouldn't have thought a ransom would be needed. Articles would be much shorter than the adventures in TGA, say something like 2-5 pages. I'm sure many GMs have stuff that could be adapted to be published, NPCs, city details, short plots, stuff like that.
-
I guess I am an internet idiot as I do not understand this "ransoming" thing. Just put it out with a price and a way for me to buy it (i.e. paypal, credit card, etc..) and I will - so long as the price isn't too high. (Like $15+ per issue, as that would be too high for a pdf only item imo, unless it was really cool with lots of great art and maps and such. I am such a map nerd!!!)
-
Great idea,
I would buy it, if its Terry approved.
-
Definite interest. But for me it musn?t at all to be Terry approved or written. Probably Terry is also in the range between 40 and 45. In this age it makes sense to think about succesors and co-writers.
And I would be also interested to read about different "moods" in SW.
But like metallion wrote: no ransom!
-
We used the ransom technique for TGAs as they represent a significant outlay for us as they are paid per word (too many authors for royalties) and are quite hefty in size. We need to know that enough people will buy that we'll break even. With Xa-ar, we could go royalty as it was single-author and it was Terry. I would not expect to need to use a ransom for short Shadow World only periodicals - even if there were multiple authors, the length would not be out of hand for pay-per-word.
(A ransom is where a work is held to "ransom" - patrons are solicited to pledge funds, if enough is pledged and the ransom is met, then the work is published on whatever the terms of the ransom are.)
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
I think there are other issues here. By Terry approving things, he makes them formal representatives of his Copyright, which dilutes his control and his enforceability of it. Any copyright owner has to be picky and somewhat choosy on who they allow to play with their copyrighted material.
I don't speak for Terry, so I don't really know if he is that picky, but he should be. It wouldn't take long for miss information, below quality products and and general thuggery to destroy what he has worked hard at. Just because you have 1 great product a year doesn't mean 20 horrible ones will not pull all that hard work down.
Have you ever looked at the Guild Companion members that write the books up? They are not necessarily better then us, but they are consistent and dependable and work hard at what they do. They are the guys that will inherit the Keys to Shadow World when it is time for Terry to move to Vog Mur, knock on wood he has a long and healthy life!
If you want to join the circle of Guild members then write, write and write more. We all love the world, appreciate the time that Terry and the rest put in, but that doesn't mean anyone of us can't step up and make it better. We all have that ability.
We do have the freedom to write our own adventures, timelines and activities, as long as we respect the individual copyright owners. We must make it clear that what we write is not endorsed by the copyright holders!
If we write a how to book for rolemaster, then that should be covered by Fair Use of their copyright (think "Windows for Dummies").
There is no reason why we, the community can not start a series of stories and adventures. The goal is to not confuse people by using home brewed rules, or stating which rules we dislike or ignore. The idea is to follow what they (ICE, Terry) have presented, and have given us the right to use (within reason of course). The entire time we encourage people to buy the relevant books.
Just my 2 bits.
-
I'd still like to hear Terry's view on this. I love his Shadowstone stories & want to start buying what SW supplements as I able to afford them. I'd just like to see a EA/HB style quarterly PDF as a affordable way for SW fans to get new & updated material for their campaigns that is canon.Maybe update the original print/PDF available supplements to what Xa-ar's timeline is currently (if there IS any meta storyline in the SW supplements).That way Terry can publish those things he's been wanting to but doesn't have the time to do a full book for.
-
Elrik -- couple of points
1) ICE owns the copyrights on Shadow World, not Terry.
2) Terry's vision is what guides Shadow World. ICE recognizes this, and recognizes that Shadow World is also essentially "Terry's Baby". ICE does not want to mar Terry's vision, thus Terry does have a lot more control over the material than you would normally find in relation to such works.
3) You cannot "dilute" copyright. You could, however, dilute Terry's vision.
4) You cannot write a "how to" book for Rolemaster, as such a book would not be covered by "Fair Use". A RPG is not the same thing as a computer system. However, ICE is very liberal in its interpretation of Fair Use, but your example falls well outside those boundaries.
5) The Guild Companion has a license which allows it to produce licensed products. ICE would like to strongly urge those who would like to author their own products to talk to Nick.
-
[...] when it is time for Terry to move to Vog Mur, knock on wood he has a long and healthy life!
[... ]
Agreed!!
And hopefully the idea is realized, because I saw to many good ideas wrecked after the initial enthusiasm
-
1) ICE owns the copyrights on Shadow World, not Terry.
Sorry, in Canada, even with a contract, the creator still has some lingering ownership (maybe not control or even money).
3) You cannot "dilute" copyright. You could, however, dilute Terry's vision.
There is a process called "dilution of copyright" also The Federal Dilution Statute, enacted 1995 (predominantly it deals with trademark but copyright is also mentioned) ... BUT, If ICE wants people to create, that pretty much trumps my entire point.
I just knew I should have read more before I posted. Sorry guys, in my industry we get picky about what happens with our products, design and work. I guess it taints my views more then I thought. I'll stop projecting now.
(elrik slinks back to his desk to nurse his ego in Shakespearian style)
-
Regardless of the murk of the copyrights, Terry and I have had a quick email exchange on this and Terry's interested.
So please discuss further what you would all like to see in this, and we would consider suitable third-party contributions.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
Woo hoo LOL <dances a jig>
Let's see before I post my wishlist I have a few questions~
1.a) Is there a meta-plot in SW & if so how does it effect the official timeline (setting-wise) ?
1.b) On a related not if a meta-plot does effect things . How far did it advance in Xa-ar from the last official SW release ?
2) Is there things that Terry wish that'd been changed in previous SW supplements that didn't really sit well with his over all vision of SW ? Such as things that other writers & the previous ICE did that he'd like seen corrected ?
Note~ Starts saving for the SW Master Atlas 3 PDF & other SW PDFs.
-
So please discuss further what you would all like to see in this, and we would consider suitable third-party contributions.
Some flesh on the skeleton...in the already existing frame more detailed work to come up with a rich and colourful shadow world...
-
How about updates on the non-Terry but sort of approved supplements to bring them more in line with the rest of the world? Norek's timeline for instance doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Maybe flesh out some of the locations in Emer I & II for instance. Whilst places like the Isle of Fire could probably benefit from a larger module, there are a fair number of locations on the Emer detail maps that could probably benefit from a short expansion.
-
I'd buy it for sure.
-
I think supplimenting the cannon material like Jaiman & the Emer books is the way to go. Xa-ar was an excellent publication that added a bit more detail and understanding to my campaign. Obviously you could not publish a quarterly of that scope...but, including a detailing of specific locations would be great. I would also like to see an expansion of Powers of Light & Darkness.
-
Maybe flesh out some of the locations in Emer I & II for instance. Whilst places like the Isle of Fire could probably benefit from a larger module, there are a fair number of locations on the Emer detail maps that could probably benefit from a short expansion.
Even if I don?t play in Emer, this would be the way to go. Detail work. The big overhelming stuff is enough. And with this statement I?m not looking at the Levels, but at the details of common live.
[... ] a bit more detail and understanding to my campaign. Obviously you could not publish a quarterly of that scope...but, including a detailing of specific locations would be great. I would also like to see an expansion of Powers of Light & Darkness.
Yeahh, for example I would like to know who is manufacturing all the Priest of Arnak!
-
Yeahh, for example I would like to know who is manufacturing all the Priest of Arnak!
The easy answer is Tonka.
A better answer:
They have an underground complex in Northern Jaiman. People find them, or they find people. Guess that there are agents everywhere there are a large group of people. Some cults probably have a graduation program, kill so many innocent people and we will send you to gain more power! I sort of threw the Baseball scout analogy at it. To boot, if you are a person that has made a name for yourself, it is only a matter of time before an agent of the unlife comes to tear you down. I would also guess that the Priests raiders capture people and bring them to the complex, those worthy become sycophants and the rest become servants, slaves, toys or food.
-
Elric, you puzzled me. But than I discovered my error:
Yeahh, for example I would like to know who is manufacturing all the rings for the Priest of Arnak!
-
LOL
Oh that is Mattel - in Black Speech, on the inside of the ring, in a lovely script is written, "Looking directly at the sun through the ring may cause blindness."
I would guess they have a small group of smiths and alchemists, as all their items are specific to each order. Every other big group has their own smiths... ;)
-
So, this are topics for me of interest in any SW pdf:
- who is making the Rings for the Arnak Priests?
- who were the Heralds, the management team, of Lorgalis in the Second Era?
- who is the leading General conquering Tanara for the Rhakhaan Emprie?
to be continued....
-
I don't believe Terry's Copyright or Trademarks are diluted if he licenses other people to use it. It's only if people violate his mark and he doesn't follow up that there's dilution.
However, I'm sure Terry discusses these things with his IP lawyer.
-
Actually metallion, it is just me over thinking again and putting my big nose into things that do not concern me. I do it often.
-
I'd like to see some art contributions of major races, places, & people of power.
-
I'd like to see some art contributions of major races, places, & people of power.
Yes, yes. More art. Good art.
-
Good art is a must! Of the races & creatures...oh & maps.Maps for any villages,towns & cities described in the articles.
-
Oh yeah, maps. Love good maps too. But please lets stop with the little villages and towns that are unwalled and totally spread out, oh, and where woodlands are abutting right up to the buildings. In a world with monsters and stuff, that is just silly and very stupid on the part of the people living in the village. It is like they are asking the monsters and evil races to come on in and eat them. Dumb.
-
I would like to see a picture (no map, real picture) of all the big Jaiman Cities. A little history about the raise of the Ulor Empire would be nice. Ahh, and for sure the management team of Ulor itself. A overview over the most famous mages of the Third Era. More about the royal lines of Jaiman. A section about the Rhakhaan navy.
-
i'd buy it too !!!!
-
And of course. Adventures with all the above details. Important because if the adventures are fairly self contained (requiring only the purchase of the PDF) these smaller issues could be a fantastic way to introduce new gamers to SW.
-
Updated timelines for older modules would be my top priority.
-
Would their be any desire to see published a quarterly Shadowworld PDF based supplement ?
YES. That is a fantastic idea! Doing it this way will hopefully mean a better production value as you will not be concerned with print costs as well as it not being needed monthly. As for what I mean by "production value" please check the Paizo Pathfinder Series and their world of Golarion. All very good stuff. I am actually looking at using HARP for that setting. (Really like the setting, really dislike the rules system ;D)
PS: Yes, I know I have already posted to this thread, but I felt I needed to do so again to emphasis my desire for this product.
-
I'd definitely be interested in writing/authoring/editing this; I did a little adventure pdf of the west coast of Jaiman towers which was fun, and I like doing the magic items, but I must admit that I drift without a schedule and deadlines. This would give me some structure and inspiration. As for submissions by others, I appreciate Elrik's concerns, and I'm not sure about the copyright issues (just thinking about them gives me a headache considering the twisted history of SW, believe me). But others have written for SW back in the day that I am fine with accepting those I've endorsed as canon. And without the same kind of pressure as I was under then to get product out, I am comfortable with looking over submissions and only including those which I think are consistent with the overall SW milieu. I think it could be a fun way to keep some SW material flowing while I plod along with Emer III/D20 Atlas layout/next Shadowstone Chapter.... eeek.
-
How about updates on the non-Terry but sort of approved supplements to bring them more in line with the rest of the world? Norek's timeline for instance doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Maybe flesh out some of the locations in Emer I & II for instance. Whilst places like the Isle of Fire could probably benefit from a larger module, there are a fair number of locations on the Emer detail maps that could probably benefit from a short expansion.
Copyright issues with Norek could be a problem, but as indicated, I always intended to elaborate on certain locations of the Emer Modules. I would also be open to a collaboration where I would provide general guidelines and another author fleshed out the details.
(Didn't A.N., one of my favorite authors as a boy, migrate to this as she got older?)
-
Woo Hoo Terry's on board LOL Now let's see what can be done to get this project started =) I'll be buying ALL issues of it as they are released . <just need to save money & a SW Atlas & other core supplements > Woo Hoo :D
-
Anything that will give us more gaming fun is great news. ;D
And more SW material is a sure way of doing this.
-
A suppliment (or series of suppliments, one pdf for each location) that details the various locations of the
Ahn .. Anre ... Jerek Ahn .... the bad guys bases. All of the maps, tricks & traps, NPCs & creatures, surrounding areas, and defensive plans (read: ideology) associated with each local would be fantastic!!!
-
In DETAIL is the key here.
-
A suppliment (or series of suppliments, one pdf for each location) that details the various locations of the Ahn .. Anre ... Jerek Ahn .... the bad guys bases. All of the maps, tricks & traps, NPCs & creatures, surrounding areas, and defensive plans (read: ideology) associated with each local would be fantastic!!!
That would be nice. Although I think you'd need a fairly decent sized supplement. Say, 32+ pages, like the "Fortresses" series from The-Game-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named.
-
As one more voice of support I am sure I would buy the supplements. I own all of the other stuff ;D
-
That would be nice. Although I think you'd need a fairly decent sized supplement. Say, 32+ pages, like the "Fortresses" series from The-Game-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named.
Yes, that would be an accurate correlation, though I would hope for much better art and maps than those found in The-Game-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named suppliments.
-
Yes, that would be an accurate correlation, though I would hope for much better art and maps than those found in The-Game-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named suppliments.
I think better art and graphics is much easier to make these days. So many more computer graphics programs that help.
-
I think better art and graphics is much easier to make these days. So many more computer graphics programs that help.
Although the funny thing is, is that I tend to prefer hand-drawn maps and such moer than the computer ones. Go figure.
-
I think better art and graphics is much easier to make these days. So many more computer graphics programs that help.
Although the funny thing is, is that I tend to prefer hand-drawn maps and such moer than the computer ones. Go figure.
Yeah, RandalThor, I can certainly understand the hand-drawn maps- it 'fits' better with a 'fantasy' environment. You know the kind of thing, the old hand drawn and Illuminated maps, with unknown areas marked 'Here be Dragons' etc. ;)
Computer generated maps probably 'feel' more right for a Sci-Fi environment.
I do agree with egdcltd though, there are so many useful graphics and 3D packages around, that make the 'budding' artists life so much easier- Bryce, Poser, DAZ Studio, etc, and most of the sites dealing with them, also sell 3D figures, models, etc. Which certainly can speed up the ol' creative process.
(I tend to enjoy building my own 3D models, though- because a lot of the ones you can buy aren't 'exactly' what you are looking for. And Poser, DAZ Studio don't support any form of mesh editing- and to be honest Bryce's modelling capabilities are a bit limited as well.)
The main problem with them- and 3D rendering in general, is the lighting. There aren't that many programs that support true Radiosity- Image-Based Lighting comes close, but can still look a bit artificial- and the rendering time is horrific for Radiosity.... :o
Although, there are various ways of faking both Image-Based Lighting and Radiosity, even on Apps that don't support them- if you are prepared to spend hours setting up and positioning hundreds of separate light-sources... :(
All the Best,
Kevin.
-
All that "3D modeling" and stuff is way beyond me. (Which might have something to do with why I prefer hand-drawn maps, hmmmmm.......) And the hand-drawn ones I like aren't generally the ones made to look "rough drawn" by a native, or whatever. But ones like the maps from Harn. Their town & city maps (Oh! and castle/keep maps!) are beautiful. A lot of the Rob Lazzaretti stuff is good, but I would prefer him to quit making his large cities to have no buildings touching each other. They are all free standing. Not good, imo.
-
The mapping software available these days is (fortunately) easy to use. The 3D modelling, well, I wouldn't know whare to start. Not seen the Harn stuff so don't know what it's like.
So, when can we see the first issue? :D Not being impatient or pushy, no, not me.
-
Anyone who would like to contribute to the as-yet-unnamed SW periodical series should contact me (editor @ guildcompanion dot com ) with their proposed topic. Anyone who has something that they want to see but want me to twist Terry's arm to write (instead of them) should also contact me. Note that if Terry's arm is twisted too much, he won't be able to write.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
-
How about posting up lists of specific things that are wanted, so that if Terry is unable to do them (or doesn't want to, but would agree to them) others can offer?
-
Please be very careful how you do this quarterly report. If you do it. I and I like to think many other players like to run long campaign's(years even). You get a real feel for your character and the world that character is in this way. Now if a group of players and their GM of course is running one of these long games based on older materials and suddenly new material arrives that goes against the old material. Suddenly players and GM need to change the game. This can mess up a good game. I can be argued that the new material can be ignored. Some players can do this others have problems with this. Thus what the group has been working at for a long time is put at risk of at the very least being tedious for a time. Another gaming system(Lets call it Paladium) did this and now has so many books out there that noone knows what is going on. It is hard to keep up to it without making it a job. I was not being paid to keep up with all the info being put out there. So I quit and went back to Rolemaster. Which has not changed much in my roleplaying days(about 23 years worth) and when it has it has not greatly affected what has come before. Please continue this careful of changing of things. Thanks.