Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => RMC/RM2 => Topic started by: runequester on October 20, 2008, 10:58:22 AM
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Ran our first session of Classic last night, though it ended up being sort of a CLassic/RMFRP hybrid. Everything worked smoothly and in play the differences were pretty minor.
One thing I am noticing is that Classic starts out characters far less skilled than FRP does.
The main skills seemed to be around 30, then each character would have a handfull of pretty minor skills at 10-15. In FRP it seems its fairly easy to start with a 50, and then a couple of 30's.
We did enjoy the much faster char-gen, but we'll have to discuss a bit which is the more desirable for us.
But we had fun :)
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Interested in hearing how your sessions go. It should be fun.
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Heh, seems like our RMSS campaign, between training packages and hobby ranks, players are starting with weapons skills in the 80s to 100s, though we usually could get that in RM2 as well. Guess it depends on how generous your GM is on your stat dice rolls ;)
-shnar
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Wow, 80 to 100? Are there item bonuses in there? Or are you using any talents from Talent Law?
In my game which is low power, talents rewritten etc my players start at 50-70 after 3rd to 5th level. Some can get higher if the TP's and numbers work right but most are in the 50-70 range.
MDC
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For RM2, it's a combination of high stats, background options and items. For RMSS, the combinations of training packages, hobby skill ranks, items, and talents can get a lvl 1 char's skill even further than an RM2 char.
RM2 example for Broadsword Skill:
+20 : 4 ranks in a skill (lvl 0 and lvl 1)
+12 : ST/ST/AG Skill bonus (+10 ST and +15 AG)
+ 3 : Professional Rank Bonus
+10 : Weapon Bonus
+10 : Background Option (+10 to Primary Skill)
That's +55OB for a starting character with the basic RM2 rules (not including some of the more powerful background options from the various companions). This is also assuming the character has decent, but not great, stat bonuses (including racial bonuses). I've had some chars that had 100 in both ST and AG (rare, I know, but still). Slap that on an Elf race, and your bonus is around +30 for skill. Throw in one or two of the Companions BG options, you can easily get another +20, putting your skill close to 100. Put the man on a Horse with the Rhohirrim +20OB On Horseback bonus, and viola, a death machine at level 1.
RMSS with Talent Law was even more insane. In the current campaign we're running, a lvl 1 Fighter Mage (Magent I think? The Mentalist variant) had an OB of over 100 *and* a DB of over 100 (after he cast two of his Instantaneous spells). He was using a Battle Axe and just slaughtering everything in his wake. I think one of his Greater Talents was Blessed By A War God...
-shnar
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...and if you buy EA 10, you can add training packages to RM Classic.
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Yeah, I was noticing that. I think I'm waiting to see if there will be an EA bundle ;)
-shnar
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Oh, I should add too that if you have one of your weapon skills as EveryMan (some cultures, some talents/BGs will do this), then you'd have EIGHT ranks instead of 4, adding another +20 to the skill...
-shnar
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...and if you buy EA 10, you can add training packages to RM Classic.
How do these work ? I like the way they work in FRP, not so much the HARP version
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...um, if I told you that, you wouldn't need to buy EA 10. I am sure Rasyr is hiding around here somewhere with his spiked club. :monkey:
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...and if you buy EA 10, you can add training packages to RM Classic.
How do these work ? I like the way they work in FRP, not so much the HARP version
Training Packages represent focused, directed training, such as from a teacher. The packages could be done through intense training (i.e. learned over a short period of time) or through a more relaxed method that takes a longer amount of time.
The result of this focused, directed training is that the TP has only a single cost for all professions. There are also a few other rules such as only 1 TP allowed during Chargen, and no gaining other TPs unless they are offered by the GM (i.e. PC work a ship in exchange for passage, GM then offers them chance to purchase Sailor TP).
The rules for TPs also introduce a skill rank limit on skills at first level (this limit applies to ranks from Cultures, TPs Background Options, etc..). Skills that get ranks from one of these items have a limit of 6 ranks. Skills that did not recieve ranks have a limit of either 2 or 4 ranks (depending on cost of skill).
The pricing method for TPs is quite simple and easy to use and so are the other TP creation rules.
EA10 also contains a selection of 50 of the most common TPs you will find in any fantasy setting.
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The differences as far as I can tell between the EA Training Packages and RMSS are:
- Single Cost for Training Package regardless of Professions (RMSS has multiple costs)
- Skill Limits on first level (unlimited in RMSS)
- Skills *only* (i.e. no items, equipment, money, etc like in RMSS)
- Rules for creating new Training Package (such a thing doesn't exist in RMSS)
That's as far as I could tell...
-shnar
-shnar
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The differences as far as I can tell between the EA Training Packages and RMSS are:
(snip)
- Skill Limits on first level (unlimited in RMSS)
Not true. IIRC, you cannot gain more than 10 ranks in any skill as a result of training packages at first level. It's been a while, so I could be wrong, but that's what sticks in my mind. It might have been a house rule.
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Tell me if we are playing this right (since I'm no RMSS expert, I played RM2 all the time): at chargen, we pick two Training Packages, one Vocational and one Lifestyle. I know you can have as many TPs as the GM will allow you, but we've been interpreting the rules to allow one Voc and one Life without needing permission.
Is this correct?
-shnar
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Only one Lifestyle TP. Any number of Vocational TPs. That's for RMSS. And even the Lifestyle limit is a guideline rather than a hard rule (but it far easier to justify having had multiple jobs than living multiple lifestyles). Of course, like any aspect of the game, individual GMs should limit things additionally as appropriate for their world.
The 10 rank limit is for any level, not just at first level. Honestly, the difference between starting with 10 ranks or 12 ranks in a skill makes the value of this limitation dubious in any case. If someone wants to be that specialized, I say punish his lack of generalization by hitting his missing skills, rather than imposing an arbitrary limit.
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The 10 rank limit is for any level, not just at first level. Honestly, the difference between starting with 10 ranks or 12 ranks in a skill makes the value of this limitation dubious in any case. If someone wants to be that specialized, I say punish his lack of generalization by hitting his missing skills, rather than imposing an arbitrary limit.
Actually I think the limitation is a good idea. If you make an replacement character it makes sense that he takes lots of TPs to flesh out the character. With the kind of TP discount that exist in RMSS that means a character that has more DP than a regular character. The rule against the TP giving more ranks when you have reached 10 ranks is the only thing that stops you from stacking vocational TPs to get a superior number of ranks.
The even better idea of course is to have the TP have a flat cost for all professions and limit what skills that can be included in a TP so that stacking TPs don't become an issue. I lack funds to currently buy EA10. but I very much look forward to it since it sounds like Rasyr got it totally right.
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The rule against the TP giving more ranks when you have reached 10 ranks is the only thing that stops you from stacking vocational TPs to get a superior number of ranks.
That, or a competent GM who knows the power level of his campaign and lets players know what the limits are on creating a new character. Depending on what level new characters are started at compared with the old and what opportunities PCs have to improve during play, stacking up TPs might be the only way to make the new character in the same league as the existing ones. And unless you're playing Elves, enforcing the times for TPs (which are, frankly, bloated) will serve as a control factor. You can even just impose a maximum age to cap TP use - that works even with an elf.
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RMSS Training Packages [TP]:
1) The PC is allowed to have 1 lifestyle TP and as many Voc TP's as the GM allows for their campaign. Note a player does not have to take any TP's at all. It is a means to provide some skill allotments for some "jobs" and some background information for the player and GM. Again the idea was to provide a set of skills that would go with a basic job or duty as well as provide some basic [or not so basic] equipment and other bonuses.
2) Skill Totals: For all TP's you cannot have more then 10 ranks in a skill unless it is a life style skill. That means that if you take 4 TP's that give you 18 ranks in a skill you only receive 10 ranks, if the skill happens to be a life style skill you can have 15 ranks so you receive 15 of the 18.
Note: The GM many or may not allow some TP's or many modify TP's for their game world.
Common Mods to TP's:
1) No bonus items
2) No bonus equipment
3) No bonus "social" specials
4) Some GM's mod skill selection or have changed the selection because they have edited the skill list
5) No stat gain rolls
As you can see most of the mods I have heard of are in the no category but still I find most GM's love them because they provide a reference "skill set" for NPC's and people who hold jobs.
Note: In SP:P PC's have to have some TP's to hold some jobs. So to be a trained medical doctor from a university you have to have a series of TP's to get your medical license and the same is true for a lawyer.
I love the way TP's interact in a modern or future game as it is much more relavent to a game world. But as a GM you could also do this in a fantasy game. So to be a "town guard" you may have a specific social class or a specific number of ranks in a weapon, etc. In SM:P TP's often require a specific TP before you can take it. This is sort of like Traveller's adn Battle Tech's skill and life path system where once you select one "path" you have options as to your next path.
MDC
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RMSS Training Packages [TP]:
2) Skill Totals: For all TP's you cannot have more then 10 ranks in a skill unless it is a life style skill. That means that if you take 4 TP's that give you 18 ranks in a skill you only receive 10 ranks, if the skill happens to be a life style skill you can have 15 ranks so you receive 15 of the 18.
Actually that example is not very revealing. A better example would be the following:
A character has 6 ranks in a skill and decide to buy one rank to the skill and purchase two training packages that give two ranks each to the skill.
If he buy the two TPs first his final number of ranks becomes 11. If he instead start with buying the single rank before the two TPs he end at 10 ranks becuase the second TP can not raise his number of ranks above 10 unless it is lifestyle skill.
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Sure if that works better for you that is fine.
Another note; I breakout TP skill ranks vs skill ranks brought with DP. This is a bit of a pain and requires a little better record keeping but in the end it works out better as you can see just where the ranks for specific skills come from.
MDC
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...and if you buy EA 10, you can add training packages to RM Classic.
This makes RMC much more appealing to me. I don't have the money to buy RMC right now though I do have RM2 and about half the companions.
jolt
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Have you actually come across a time when you've had more than 10 ranks in a skill? I haven't made /too/ many RMSS characters, but I've never seen anyone have more than 10 ranks before. Seems like a rarity...
-shnar
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I think things get exaggerated a bit.
However, with the Culture options, training packages from EA10, and the fighting styles of the Combat Companion, I think Im well settled into RMC with options pulled in from RMFRP as appropriate
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Have you actually come across a time when you've had more than 10 ranks in a skill? I haven't made /too/ many RMSS characters, but I've never seen anyone have more than 10 ranks before. Seems like a rarity...
-shnar
Yes I have see quite a few PC's with more then 10 ranks gained in a skill by means of TP's. Partly this is because I start PC's at 3-5th level in a fantasy or space setting and as I said in SM:P TP are very important to the PC and the plot line.
I have also used TP's in the past for PC's training for a job or just impersonating someone at a job. I have seen quite a few rules on training with teachers but I have not found one that I am in love with and do more than just a TP could do.
MDC
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Not sure exactly what specific Q:A put this in the FAQ either. Anyone?