Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => Topic started by: Bruce on October 14, 2018, 11:51:23 AM
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A discussion about if the "66" roll is unmodified or not has popped up in the Rolemaster Facebook page. I believe it has to be an unmodified result but that may be something my friends and I decided on long long ago. So I was doing some research into the various books I have but I can't even find anything on the "66" rule. Maybe I don't have the right books. But could someone (or various someones) point me to where the rule is located in each of the editions, at least the editions it is located in.
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I believe it's simply in the tables themselves. Many have their own unique result.
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Note that originally 66 was only a unique result in the critical tables and its functionality depends on it not requiring a natural result. The point was to make Ambush more effective (by giving a top result in the middle of the table). RMSS muddied the point of the 66 by using it for Unusual results on a natural 66 for static maneuvers.
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Note that originally 66 was only a unique result in the critical tables and its functionality depends on it not requiring a natural result. The point was to make Ambush more effective (by giving a top result in the middle of the table). RMSS muddied the point of the 66 by using it for Unusual results on a natural 66 for static maneuvers.
So it was in RMSS where it started with static rolls? I could've sword I used the 66 as a unique result before RMSS came out.... I will have to look through those rules. In the games I run you can only achieve two results with a natural unmodified 66 and a 100.
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On the static maneuver tables for RMSS, it's listed as UM 66 and UM 100, for unmodified. These have to be natural rolls.
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So it was in RMSS where it started with static rolls? I could've sword I used the 66 as a unique result before RMSS came out..
The Alternative Static Manoeuvre table in RM2, the Static Manoeuvre table in MERP and the Expanded Alternative Static Manoeuvre tables in RoCoII all make no mention of 66.
Unless it was mentioned in an RM2 Companion that came after III, UM66 and UM100 results for static manoeuvres were introduced in RMSS.
Prior to RMSS, 66 did show up in the crit tables, but it was never listed as an UM result.
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UM66 and UM100 is a great idea. I feel being able to use Ambush to modify the results to a 66 or 100 is silly.
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UM66 and UM100 is a great idea. I feel being able to use Ambush to modify the results to a 66 or 100 is silly.
Would you care to explain what you see as being silly about it, giving that altering crits to lethal ones is the entire purpose of Ambush?
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The Ambush skill is already very powerful. Being able to use Ambush and change your critical to a 66 or 100 removes the "unusual results" of UM (unmodified) rolls, fun from the game.
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Not really, considering how difficult it was to develop and use Ambush in RAW RM2. My players were always surprised when it worked, honestly.
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Not really, considering how difficult it was to develop and use Ambush in RAW RM2. My players were always surprised when it worked, honestly.
Do you require an Ambush skill roll in addition to some kind of stealth (probably stalking) roll? The skill description in RM2 is not super clear but some people interpret it as not needing a roll. The skill says "To use his Ambush skill a character must approach his foe undetected and be able to strike before the foe can react. If the ambush skill is successfully used..." You could read "is successfully used" meaning only that these requirements are met, or you could read it as requiring a static maneuver. But the absence of a stat bonus doesn't make much sense if a maneuver is required.
RMSS explicitly required an Ambush static maneuver. In RMU, a roll is explicitly not required.
Although the static maneuver tables in RMSS listed 66 and 100 as UM rolls, that's not the case on the critical charts.
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For what it's worth, i prefer not having to make a static roll for ambush; the normal rules for stalking and stealth can handle that. We do not require a roll on top of that.
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We didn't use the static roll either.
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Confirmed for our Ambush interpretation, also.
No Static Man. roll, if all situational mods and Stealth vs Perception matchups were successful, we allowed the +/- to any crit happen as soon as an attack connected.
Another thing we did was allow weapon bonii to be applied to Criticals as I hated robbing a character of their favourite artifact due to a 1-5(20) result on some charts.
It still happened, but only with breakage checks. ;)
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You'd have to make a successful Stalk roll to get into Ambush range, but RM2 didn't require a skill roll so we didn't use one.
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Ditto here. Successful Stalk = use of Ambush on Crit roll. Same with Sniping (which we used as per Ambush rules) except in this case it's a successful Hiding roll versus Perception.
Nightblade ->--
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Not really, considering how difficult it was to develop and use Ambush in RAW RM2. My players were always surprised when it worked, honestly.
Do you require an Ambush skill roll in addition to some kind of stealth (probably stalking) roll? The skill description in RM2 is not super clear but some people interpret it as not needing a roll. The skill says "To use his Ambush skill a character must approach his foe undetected and be able to strike before the foe can react. If the ambush skill is successfully used..." You could read "is successfully used" meaning only that these requirements are met, or you could read it as requiring a static maneuver. But the absence of a stat bonus doesn't make much sense if a maneuver is required.
RMSS explicitly required an Ambush static maneuver. In RMU, a roll is explicitly not required.
Although the static maneuver tables in RMSS listed 66 and 100 as UM rolls, that's not the case on the critical charts.
Because Ambush could be costly and opportunity to use it was so infrequent, we allowed Ambush to serve dual roles. The first is obviously the manner in which it was intended; to modify a crit roll. The second was to allow not just a single person, but to also allow the party to set up a successful ambush point. In this manner, we could allow the targets a RR of Sense Ambush/Assassin against the attackers, or to give a surprise bonus to the attackers on the set up of a successful ambush. Players then found more 'value' to having the Ambush skill and started to use it more frequently.
Stalk/Hide is another skill we allowed to serve a dual purpose. We split the Stalk/Hide skill into two components; the Stalking (AG/SD) and the Hiding (SD). The player purchases the single skill of Stalk/Hide, but chooses which aspect they use in game play. One skill is moving undetected, the other is just hiding in place. They are two very different actions.