Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => Topic started by: Marc on October 17, 2011, 06:07:13 PM
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Let say a player hides total skill roll 90. Then starts to cast a 3 round spell(2 rounds of preperation 1 round of casting).
While preparing is the player automatically unhidden or do people try to spot him with a normal perception roll as hidden?
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IMHO they would try and spot the caster, but remember the caster generally talks when casting and might be gesturing, etc. So the person trying to spot the caster will have a bonus to spot him/her.
MDC
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This is one of the reasons I use Spell Trickery (Power Manipulation category) in my game. Without Spell Trickery, by speaking and gesturing, you forfeit any Hide maneuver (and enemies will generally know the general location of an invisible spell preparer). With successful Spell Trickery, any Hide maneuver is preserved.
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Let say a player hides total skill roll 90. Then starts to cast a 3 round spell(2 rounds of preperation 1 round of casting).
While preparing is the player automatically unhidden or do people try to spot him with a normal perception roll as hidden?
Not automatically, but in my world, the gestures, incantations and the magical special effects are likely to get people's attentions. :) (Phear invisible casters in silence spells... )
So, as Peter notes below, casters try to learn Spell Trickery to at least hide the gestures and effects (the success of that roll affecting the Hide roll success via your favorite mechanic).
Regards,
Old Man
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In my RMFRP game, Hiding is a 20%Act and therefore precludes Spell Prep (which requires 90%Act.)
Our particular definition of Spell Prep is "preparing to cast a spell".
So without considering the actual casting, which may or may not involve voice, gestures, etc, the mere act of prepping is enough to occupy someone enough that they can't functionally Hide.
Once you consider actually casting the spell, things can change. An instant requires 10%Act and all others need 75%Act. So, I would allow you to Hide and cast. Making gestures will increase the DR for Hiding. Using voice will make it even worse.
But I would think it is possible to cast while Hiding. It is just really hard to do. :)
Passing a Spell Trickery would help.
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I get on the far side of barrel and sit down completely out of sight from the people I am hiding from. I begin to focus my will so that I can cast a spell properly. And I am stymied because it takes 20% activity not to jump up and shout "Here I am!"?
Stalking definitely takes Activity, but I can't see that Hiding would in general, although there are certainly specific cases where it would. It also depends on what you consider spell preparation to consist of: if it is generally similar to spell-casting, then you need to worry about the gestures, speaking, etc. (unless using Mentalism), but if you see it as clearing one's mind, focusing one's will, and feeling out the flow of the Essence around you (which would explain why it takes so much of your concentration that it's more Activity-consuming than actually casting the spell), it doesn't seem in conflict with Hiding at all.
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If your cover is that good, you may not need to hide. :)
But is your foot sticking out or are you gently moving the barrel? Are you hopped up on adrenaline or able to calm yourself and remain still? It may just be a game mechanic, but it's a system we use. :)
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I agree with rdanhenry. If you're already hidden (in a covered position), I'd let you prepare spells. But you better be prepared to make a SCSM for no voice. And possibly no free hands, in some cases. This will make preparing spells a lot harder, but not impossible.
However, I DO see preparing as similar to spell-casting because of what it says in the SCSM table: "With each condition, use the worst (to the caster) mod. applicable during any preparation round or casting round". Among these conditions are use of voice and free hands.
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Hiding is not just lounging behind the barrel, merely trying not to jump up and shout. It involves controlling your movements and breathing and, when the hiding place is good enough, keeping an eye out for the people you are trying to hide from. Simply ducking and burying your face in the sand might not use up activity, but that is not a very good course of action. I'd say that actively hiding is perhaps even more than a 20% activity.
Another factor I was looking for in this thread was that preparing a spell not only involves speech, somatics and perhaps material components, but you do those things to gather magical energies that accumulate at your hands or head (mentalism) to shoot away as a spell when you cast the magical energies.
I know RAW doesn't state it specifically, but I'm using such cinematic effects for my spell casters. Casting a fire bolt would see small tendrils of flame gathering to the caster, then those tendrils form a small ball between his hands and at casting the ball shoots forth as a 1" bolt, streaking across the battlefield in a fiery arc.
For channeling casters I have bright lights spring up from the ground, or golden energy gathering or choirs singing in the background and mentalism users project halos or get brightly glowing eyes and such.
This is tied, in part, to what type of spell is being cast and it is more pronouncing in F and E spells and more subtle in U and I spells.
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Hiding is not just lounging behind the barrel, merely trying not to jump up and shout. It involves controlling your movements and breathing and, when the hiding place is good enough, keeping an eye out for the people you are trying to hide from.
I used to tell players that the reason SD was a stat bonus for hiding was because "it represents your ability to completely ignore the fly that's walking across your face as you try to remain motionless."
;)
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We have no "cinematics" for spell casting in our setting, but if you do, then obviously things change a lot. In my world, you can cast a spell without anyone noticing anything, even if they're standing next to you. You'd get penalties for no free hands (that is, no USED hands) and no voice, but that would be it.
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I don't use it either, but I might think about it as a new type of magical curse.
GOF:
"completely ignore the fly that's walking across your face as you try to remain motionless"
Now that is a cool cinematic for each time you cast a necro spell. Or your eyes crawl with worms, skeletons could crawl to the surface from underground..
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I also think it depends on the type of spell being cast, ie if it is a directed spell I do not know if I would let him be not in sight of his target.
MDC
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For spell-casting, you need to see your target. For spell preparation I'd think not. Just as you can load your crossbow while under cover and only stick your head up when you decide to find someone to shoot at.
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I found a reference to Spell Trickery in SOHK, but for more details it referred to Essence Companion. I looked in RMSS Ess Comp and also in RMFRP Of Essence but I couldn't find it in either. I may have missed it but does anyone know off hand where the details of this skill are located?
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Pg 20 EssCo, bottom left, table top right.
To paraphrase... covers all secret casting..used to cast spells unnoticed.. while talking, hiding, etc. The chart has mods for no verbal, Hiding Maneuver mod, distance to observer, instant, Mentalism, hands/no hands...
IMHO, Peter is right. I'll use Spell Trickery for Hiding. :)
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You need to also consider the hand waving and chanting make it hard to hide, unless you go silent, no hands and eat those penalties.
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Something to keep in mind, too: with RAW, if you're not using voice, you automatically make a SCSM, with a small penalty for not using voice (at least for Essence users).
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one minor detail about the initial question... Hiding is a static maneuver and rolling a 90 just didn't get a success... add penalties for hand waving and or magical energies gathering and you'd probably not even reach 75+! In the most lenient case; other people would need to roll just 91 on a perception type skill to see you.
Funny I didn't catch that first off.