Has anyone let their players lead a guild or faction at higher levels?

[Druss_the_Legend]

GMs! Lend me your ideas!
Has anyone let their players lead a guild or faction at higher levels?
Did you have a framework for guilds run by player characters?

I was thinking about a framework today. Initial thoughts are as follows:
1) characters get a skill called Guild Master at a certain level, or whenever the GM decides they can attract followers. Cost of the skill is 3/8 (but cost could be different for different classes).
2) a requirement would be a physical base of operations and this would vary depending on the profession but could be a hideout, temple or guild hall. This implies a monetary component but I think this could be worked out in a number of ways depending on the character, their status, their wealth, their contacts, their relationship over the ruler of the region etc.
3) each rank in the Guildmaster skill gives the PC a Follower Dice (forget the name, its the dice thats important)
non-spell user Guildmasters roll 1d8 per skill rank
semi-spell user Guildmasters roll 1d6 per skill rank
pure/hybrid spell user Guildmasters roll 1d4 per skill rank
The number rolled is the number of level 1 followers that join the guild.

Once 10 followers join the guild there is a chance higher level followers will join. (level 2-3)
Once the Guild leader has 5 ranks in Guidmaster they will attract a 2IC captain/subcommander of half the PCs level.
GM could allow a length of time to pass such as months or even years and allow.

feedback/suggestions are welcome.

[EltonJ]

A shaman player is asked to lead the Earthen Ring in World of Warcraft.  This does seem like a thing for a player who reaches "Lord" level.

[Druss_the_Legend]

GMs! Lend me your ideas!
Has anyone let their players lead a guild or faction at higher levels?
Did you have a framework for guilds run by player characters?

I was thinking about a framework today. Initial thoughts are as follows:
1) characters get a skill called Guild Master at a certain level, or whenever the GM decides they can attract followers. Cost of the skill is 3/8 (but cost could be different for different classes).
2) a requirement would be a physical base of operations and this would vary depending on the profession but could be a hideout, temple or guild hall. This implies a monetary component but I think this could be worked out in a number of ways depending on the character, their status, their wealth, their contacts, their relationship over the ruler of the region etc.
3) each rank in the Guildmaster skill gives the PC a Follower Dice (forget the name, its the dice thats important)
non-spell user Guildmasters roll 1d8 per skill rank
semi-spell user Guildmasters roll 1d6 per skill rank
pure/hybrid spell user Guildmasters roll 1d4 per skill rank
The number rolled is the number of level 1 followers that join the guild.

Once 10 followers join the guild there is a chance higher level followers will join. (level 2-3)
Once the Guild leader has 5 ranks in Guidmaster they will attract a 2IC captain/subcommander of half the PCs level.
GM could allow a length of time to pass such as months or even years and allow.

GM could allow a length of time to pass such as months or even years and allow... additional followers to join the guild/faction or a minimum time period may need to elapse before a new roll is made. The size of the town or city or population would give some benefit/bonus.

Thr reputation of the huild leader would also impact the number of followers that appear and join.

[EltonJ]

GMs! Lend me your ideas!
Has anyone let their players lead a guild or faction at higher levels?
Did you have a framework for guilds run by player characters?

I was thinking about a framework today. Initial thoughts are as follows:
1) characters get a skill called Guild Master at a certain level, or whenever the GM decides they can attract followers. Cost of the skill is 3/8 (but cost could be different for different classes).
2) a requirement would be a physical base of operations and this would vary depending on the profession but could be a hideout, temple or guild hall. This implies a monetary component but I think this could be worked out in a number of ways depending on the character, their status, their wealth, their contacts, their relationship over the ruler of the region etc.
3) each rank in the Guildmaster skill gives the PC a Follower Dice (forget the name, its the dice thats important)
non-spell user Guildmasters roll 1d8 per skill rank
semi-spell user Guildmasters roll 1d6 per skill rank
pure/hybrid spell user Guildmasters roll 1d4 per skill rank
The number rolled is the number of level 1 followers that join the guild.

Once 10 followers join the guild there is a chance higher level followers will join. (level 2-3)
Once the Guild leader has 5 ranks in Guidmaster they will attract a 2IC captain/subcommander of half the PCs level.
GM could allow a length of time to pass such as months or even years and allow.

GM could allow a length of time to pass such as months or even years and allow... additional followers to join the guild/faction or a minimum time period may need to elapse before a new roll is made. The size of the town or city or population would give some benefit/bonus.

Thr reputation of the huild leader would also impact the number of followers that appear and join.

Alternatively, you could look in War Law for rules on getting followers, too.

[MisterK]

You may want to keep a few things in mind:

1. In most cases, if it isn't a wilderness setting, a guild system already exists and it is fairly encompassing, in that it covers all professions, even marginal ones (i.e. thieves' guild). A new guild not sanctioned by the existing ones will almost certainly run into problems with the others pushing to strangle it before it takes root. In most cases, the existing guilds will have the tacit approval of the ruling hierarchy who already has "arrangements" (public or not) with the existing guilds.
Antitrust laws do not exist in medieval times. Guilds were created to ensure a stable income for practitioners by limiting competition (with a side benefit of ensuring minimum quality of products, but this is not intended in many cases).

2. Being a guild leader is similar to being a company CEO: it is a full-time job where you deal with large and small mundane problems, administrative issues, and conflicting ambitions of your fellow guild members to limit your own power and increase their own. Being the boss is no fun. And most importantly, *it is a full-time job*. No more adventuring for you.

Beyond that, I'm not sure going for a single dedicated skill is the way to go. Many skill required for being a guild master already exist : accounting, leadership, diplomacy, etiquette, trading, appraisal, various profession skills, and so on. Guilds are created to ensure stable market conditions for practitioners of a trade skill or business: they expect you to know what you're doing. The skills already exist in RM, and going from being a typical adventurer to a guildmaster without preparation is a sure recipe for dismal failure.
If you want a modern equivalent, think about elite sportsmen who end their career and become businessmen. Unless they have learned the required skills beforehand, and filled up their contacts list, they fail and are often ruined in the process. Even those who decide (smartly) to run a business in *sports* - because they already have the contacts and at least functional knowledge of what it is all about - require additional training in business management, finance, and the like.


The case is slightly different for non-trade "guilds" (such as establishing a religion), but even in these cases the above apply: official religions do not exist just because priests want them to: they require the blessing of the ruler and, as such, at least tacit agreement from the *other* religions*, and good luck getting them to agree to have a competitor setting up shop in town. Thieves' guilds and other illegal guilds are probably the worst - but also those that have the most potential: you can expect a no-holds-barred power struggle to destroy you and your upstart "guild", and you start from a position of weakness. But if you manage to succeed, you can claim the spoils of the crime war - you're the boss now. Still, the most likely outcome is that you end up face down in a gutter, leaking your lifeblood from fatal stabbing wounds.

So where does this lead us ? To the obvious: you do not "create" a guild, you are awarded a position of relative power within one. Which means you work your way up the power ladder like a good corporate executive. You start as a guild member like any other, and you suck up to the people in charge. You make yourself useful. You show that you know how to do things. You choose a patron, and get ready to replace or betray them. You create a web of alliances within the guild, which will act as support, and create a power base within the guild as well, by recruiting and promoting people who will owe you favours that you can cash in when you make your move. All the while keeping up the appearances of being a good, productive, and efficient guild member.

Welcome to the world of corporate backstabbing. This is essentially what being in a guild for power is.


What you are asking for looks more like an independent power base establishment than a guild. Yet keep in mind that, even in this case, if the character wants to create a power base in an area where there are others of the same kind (temporal power, economic power, spiritual power...), there is an existing hierarchy they answer to, and this hierarchy will not simply allow anyone to run roughshod over the existing structure. You do name yourself baron - you are granted the title, so someone granted it, and that someone has rules to follow and also has expectations about what you will bring to the table.

The best thing you can do if you want to set up shop as an independent is to settle along a trade route, build a caravan stop in the wilderness where there is none, and develop it. Sooner or later, someone will be interested in absorbing you, but chances are, in the meantime, you will have made yourself too powerful or useful to simply gobble up, and will end up being offered a position instead.

In short, guilds, and any organisation for that matter, exist within society. They have a purpose and follow rules. You can't just barge in and create a new organisation as if none of this was existing: you have to play by the existing rules.

[jdale]

So where does this lead us ? To the obvious: you do not "create" a guild, you are awarded a position of relative power within one. Which means you work your way up the power ladder like a good corporate executive. You start as a guild member like any other, and you suck up to the people in charge. You make yourself useful. You show that you know how to do things. You choose a patron, and get ready to replace or betray them. You create a web of alliances within the guild, which will act as support, and create a power base within the guild as well, by recruiting and promoting people who will owe you favours that you can cash in when you make your move. All the while keeping up the appearances of being a good, productive, and efficient guild member.

Welcome to the world of corporate backstabbing. This is essentially what being in a guild for power is.

Sounds like a good basis for a campaign if you ask me. The gradual expansion of both duties and the scope of the story is perfect for a campaign. Start small, work your way up, gain more responsibility and power, need to fix increasingly large problems. Once you have the guild under your control, the scope shifts further and now you are a player in urban (or even national) politics, trying to deal with more powerful foes and bigger problems.

[MisterK]

So where does this lead us ? To the obvious: you do not "create" a guild, you are awarded a position of relative power within one. Which means you work your way up the power ladder like a good corporate executive. You start as a guild member like any other, and you suck up to the people in charge. You make yourself useful. You show that you know how to do things. You choose a patron, and get ready to replace or betray them. You create a web of alliances within the guild, which will act as support, and create a power base within the guild as well, by recruiting and promoting people who will owe you favours that you can cash in when you make your move. All the while keeping up the appearances of being a good, productive, and efficient guild member.

Welcome to the world of corporate backstabbing. This is essentially what being in a guild for power is.

Sounds like a good basis for a campaign if you ask me. The gradual expansion of both duties and the scope of the story is perfect for a campaign. Start small, work your way up, gain more responsibility and power, need to fix increasingly large problems. Once you have the guild under your control, the scope shifts further and now you are a player in urban (or even national) politics, trying to deal with more powerful foes and bigger problems.

It can be used as a framework for a more or less sandbox campaign, yes - sandbox in the way that the player(s) are the plot protagonists, not merely the action protagonists. My only concern is that it probably requires quite a bit of off-session work for everyone, because, presumably, you don't want to spend session time crunching the numbers and drawing plans.