Future Shadow World Material

[GrumpyOldFart]

I stand by what I said above. As soon as they can get it done over and above the demands of full time job, family, etc.

The release of Spell Law was a pleasant surprise. Let's hope we get more of those.

[katastrophe]

I didn't say released, I said completed. Totally different things. At some Con in October they had a version of the Core book so it was done then but not available on drivethru for another 2 months. And it's been 3 months since then. Totaling around 5 months.

The sky isn't falling since I've no financial investment. In fact we're currently running with the same rules RMSS for about 2 decades. It'd be nice to switch but since evidently that's not a priority for ICE it's not a priority for us either.

I look forward to trying RMU out in 3-4 years. Just think about all the gaming dollars I'll spend elsewhere between now and then.

Though I am pleasantly surprised with the recent purchase of Treasure Law. My prediction on when someone can actually pick up the full set of game books for a game of RMU - rules, spells and monsters - is looking a lot less like hyperbole one year later.

[katastrophe]

At the current pace, it won't be until 2024 or possibly 2025 that someone can sit down and purchase the RULES to play RMU. Since they "finished" the 1st book, RMU Core, it has been 5 or 6 months and there is not even a timeframe for the 2nd book, RMU Spell Law.  I dont imagine there will be a speedier process for release of the subsequent and necessary rule books.

Yes, having the rule books out should take precedence over putting out the source and setting material, BUT, sadly, with the glacial pace at which they put out any material, it could reasonably be 2026-2027 before they get anything out for their core setting. It could be hyperbole but it seems like it might be more likely that my dates are closer to the truth than what they will admit.

The guy that wrote this post is looking more and more like he was correct. Seeing as how there is still a creature book needed - hopefully will be out soon, we can still make that 2026-2027 timeframe for setting materials. If it come by mid 2025 I suppose I will be grateful.

[Cory Magel]

Since we're in a snarky mood apparently (what's new?): I could actually (purchase and) play RMU without Spell Law if I wasn't using casters and I didn't need creature law to do it back then either.
But don't let that technicality stop you from straining a muscle publicly patting yourself on the back too hard!

[Malim]

Gotta agree with an abit too long wait for the core books to land.

But that aint important to me since im not gonna use RMU. ( RM2 with enchants is our game )
SHADOW WORLD... The setting designed for Rolemaster!
Has it to great sorrow passed with its master TKA or will it come to a new greatness with a new engineer of shadow world?

[katastrophe]

Since we're in a snarky mood apparently (what's new?): I could actually (purchase and) play RMU without Spell Law if I wasn't using casters and I didn't need creature law to do it back then either.
But don't let that technicality stop you from straining a muscle publicly patting yourself on the back too hard!

I honestly wish I was wrong. RM is my favorite fantasy RPG and Shadow World is the most interesting fantasy landscape. Nonetheless, it is really hard to play a half-complete game. 10 plus years of development of a game that is 40 years old is just a bad approach, regardless of the other issues, such as lack of full ownership of the IP and developed materials. In the time this has all been going on since the initial release of the last Beta, they could have released all the books and be on a second edition with fixes learned through real world game play playtests that may even go beyond the same old folks that have been playing their version of RM without any major update for 20-30 years.

I get this is a pet and part-time project for the writers, but still, 1 -2 books per year when it takes 5-6 to have the full set of basic rules and that is before there is any setting materials updated to the new rules.

Maybe I will change my forum ID to Snarks.

[thrud]

Hey, usually I'm the salty one?
Getting a new crowd into RMU will be difficult before the core books have been released, no question about that. However, any players with experience from previous versions could start playing any time they like. It might not be a perfect match, but you can use creatures from any of the previous versions without breaking anything. You can even use Shadow World with minimal effort.
Now, ofc everyone would like a more rapid release schedule, but you can still play while waiting.
I suspect Shadow World will be more difficult though. Disregarding all the red tape, licensing, IP, etc. Relaunching Shadow World for RMU would require a lot of work. There are quite frankly parts of it that are an absolute mess. I love Shadow World, but it's far beyond just simple quirks. The Unlife is a core concept for example, and I wonder if it's even possible to use it RAW in any of the previous editions? It appears to require some significant house ruling just to get it playable? With RMU there are parts that wouldn't be possible even with house rules (unless you go deep down the rabbit hole). So, serious re-writing and fixing needed.
I personally wonder if ICE would be prepared to do what's needed? Rolling out a reprint with new stats is one thing, but sorting out the mess and rewriting the books for the new system is a very different matter.

[MisterK]

Hey, usually I'm the salty one?

No. It has been established that Katastrophe is the one. You can be the substitute if you want, though :p

Getting a new crowd into RMU will be difficult before the core books have been released, no question about that. However, any players with experience from previous versions could start playing any time they like. It might not be a perfect match, but you can use creatures from any of the previous versions without breaking anything. You can even use Shadow World with minimal effort.

Actually, you need effort to play Shadow World even with the existing RM system(s). I'm not exactly sure why, but it always seems like SW was designed with another system in mind, or, more likely, it was designed *without* a system in mind and the system was tacked on afterwards. I know it's probably not true, but it *feels* like it is.

Now, ofc everyone would like a more rapid release schedule, but you can still play while waiting.
I suspect Shadow World will be more difficult though. Disregarding all the red tape, licensing, IP, etc. Relaunching Shadow World for RMU would require a lot of work.

Depends on what you really want to do. A RMU-compatible Master Atlas would probably go a long way. You usually have all the basics in it, including sample monster and NPC stats, racial stats, timeline, world overview, herbs, linguistic tips...).

There are quite frankly parts of it that are an absolute mess. I love Shadow World, but it's far beyond just simple quirks. The Unlife is a core concept for example, and I wonder if it's even possible to use it RAW in any of the previous editions? It appears to require some significant house ruling just to get it playable?

I suspect it was not meant to be "playable". It was meant to be the bogeyman. But even with that caveat, it is a mess.

With RMU there are parts that wouldn't be possible even with house rules (unless you go deep down the rabbit hole). So, serious re-writing and fixing needed.
I personally wonder if ICE would be prepared to do what's needed? Rolling out a reprint with new stats is one thing, but sorting out the mess and rewriting the books for the new system is a very different matter.

I think they once said that they would be open to resuming the product line if they could find one or more people who had the skills, time, and passion to act as active caretakers (read: line editors). SW, especially during its heydays prior to TKA resuming control over the IP, suffered from an "anything goes as long as it uses a couple of key words" line editing policy, which translated into products that were of subpar quality and only marginally consistent with Shadow World as a whole. The later products (from Emer I onwards) were done with TKA at the helm and it showed - there was a consistency in the writing and the underlying setup that was clearly missing before. I did not agree with every choice TKA made (quite the contrary),, but the effort to go back to a consistent product line showed.

that's what is needed right now for SW: one or more persons who are very knowledgeable about Shadow World, have some time on their hands to work on a full update, and have design and writing skills - and, if more than one person, who agree on the foundations of the setting and on the direction it should take.

Let's just say, I'm not optimistic that they will find those people any time soon.

[B Hanson]

I think they once said that they would be open to resuming the product line if they could find one or more people who had the skills, time, and passion to act as active caretakers (read: line editors). SW, especially during its heydays prior to TKA resuming control over the IP, suffered from an "anything goes as long as it uses a couple of key words" line editing policy, which translated into products that were of subpar quality and only marginally consistent with Shadow World as a whole. The later products (from Emer I onwards) were done with TKA at the helm and it showed - there was a consistency in the writing and the underlying setup that was clearly missing before. I did not agree with every choice TKA made (quite the contrary),, but the effort to go back to a consistent product line showed.

that's what is needed right now for SW: one or more persons who are very knowledgeable about Shadow World, have some time on their hands to work on a full update, and have design and writing skills - and, if more than one person, who agree on the foundations of the setting and on the direction it should take.

Let's just say, I'm not optimistic that they will find those people any time soon.

--I'm not even sure what to say about this?

[EltonJ]

I think they once said that they would be open to resuming the product line if they could find one or more people who had the skills, time, and passion to act as active caretakers (read: line editors). SW, especially during its heydays prior to TKA resuming control over the IP, suffered from an "anything goes as long as it uses a couple of key words" line editing policy, which translated into products that were of subpar quality and only marginally consistent with Shadow World as a whole. The later products (from Emer I onwards) were done with TKA at the helm and it showed - there was a consistency in the writing and the underlying setup that was clearly missing before. I did not agree with every choice TKA made (quite the contrary),, but the effort to go back to a consistent product line showed.

that's what is needed right now for SW: one or more persons who are very knowledgeable about Shadow World, have some time on their hands to work on a full update, and have design and writing skills - and, if more than one person, who agree on the foundations of the setting and on the direction it should take.

Let's just say, I'm not optimistic that they will find those people any time soon.

--I'm not even sure what to say about this?

Sorry, that's not me.  I was only interested in Shadow World with a passing interest.  I can't take over the helm of Shadow World.  So I hope that the leaders of ICE can find the right guy.

[Micael]

I think they once said that they would be open to resuming the product line if they could find one or more people who had the skills, time, and passion to act as active caretakers (read: line editors). SW, especially during its heydays prior to TKA resuming control over the IP, suffered from an "anything goes as long as it uses a couple of key words" line editing policy, which translated into products that were of subpar quality and only marginally consistent with Shadow World as a whole. The later products (from Emer I onwards) were done with TKA at the helm and it showed - there was a consistency in the writing and the underlying setup that was clearly missing before. I did not agree with every choice TKA made (quite the contrary),, but the effort to go back to a consistent product line showed.

that's what is needed right now for SW: one or more persons who are very knowledgeable about Shadow World, have some time on their hands to work on a full update, and have design and writing skills - and, if more than one person, who agree on the foundations of the setting and on the direction it should take.

Let's just say, I'm not optimistic that they will find those people any time soon.

--I'm not even sure what to say about this?

perhaps luck is shining on shadowworld and soon there will be somebody who will bring the skills and the time & passion. I know somebody but we will see...   Thanks Micael

[metallion]

I really do hate to say it, but we're coming up on 3 years since Terry's passing, and I really think that if ICE was serious about moving forward with any SW products, even the stuff that was almost out like Emer IV, they'd have done it by now.  Or something.  Or at least told us what a schedule would look like.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've always done my own development of SW over and above what Terry did, and I'm reasonably certain that's the only way I'm ever going to see new content.  If ICE surprises me and publishes something, I'll see if I can back-fit it, but it's not clear to me that I'm ever going to need to purchase an ICE product again.

That said, if someone - ICE, the Amthor Estate, some other owner of Terry's IP would like to sell me an Emer IV draft, or even Terry's SW notes base, I'd pay cash money for that.

[MisterK]

I don't know about anyone else, but I've always done my own development of SW over and above what Terry did, and I'm reasonably certain that's the only way I'm ever going to see new content.

Oh, I've done the same. Obviously, my own brand of Shadow World was diverging more and more from the official line. To the point where I was pretty sure that I wouldn't use EmerIV at all, because I've already GMed a six-year campaign that mainly took place in Uj.

If ICE surprises me and publishes something, I'll see if I can back-fit it, but it's not clear to me that I'm ever going to need to purchase an ICE product again.

Oh, I would buy it anyway, just to support the product line, unless it goes in a direction I don't agree with. But I would use bits and pieces from it, not wholesale. I did exactly that for Xa'ar (my take on Saralis is absolutely not canon, but I could still use a few snippets here and there).