Topic: Shadow World RMU introductory adventure?

[kwickham]

I recently posted a setting post in RMU beta.

Many promoted SW as a possible setting for RMU.

I do not own any SW products.

But if there is one SW product with RMU stats at an introductory—beginning level 1 product—available at the time of RMU release I will buy, and many others that might be new to SW and RM, by adding that product into my DriveThru shopping cart and check out paying for that product simultaneously.

I'm not going to wait for SW to convert something a month or more later. Within one month of purchasing the core, I will play a setting, with or without SW.

I hope that you third party converters find something, and receive the rules early enough, to present something.

I believe that RMU really needs an introductory adventure available at the same time as the release of the core.

I've heard in that post that third party would create a converted product from existing material. I hope that those that volunteers to do so be given the tools such as an advanced copy of the RMU rules early enough to make such conversion.

If there is not a SW product at the time of RMU's release, I'm afraid that the ship will sale on me and Shadow World.

Even a 15 to 50 page beginning level 1 to 4 or 5 ready-to-run adventure will do.

I'm not asking for SW Atlas RMU (do that later), just a simple maybe 3 part adventure.

I don't want to make my own RMU setting, but will do so only as the last resort. If that happens, its unlikely I'll ever try SW again, or until the next RM version release 10+ more years.

[Witchking20k]

I agree.  But, why convert?  Take a small module (Quellebourne/Norek/Xa'ar) and re-imagine a pre-gen adventure for RMU.  Shrine of the Spider Goddess (Quellebourne) has a nice classic FRP ring to it and some maps to support it.  Just detail that.  One fantastic gentle-person did that for Cyradon and that was a great success IMO.  ICE needs to create new IP not recycle the exact books over and over again.  Once enough of the smaller adventures are published and generating interest and revenue then ICE can either create new modules or just release an addendum for a book.  Also, republishing somewhat limits layout and art etc.  I'm not sure what ICEs standard will be moving forward but a book the size & quality of the SW players guide (which is a beautiful publication) could be the goal.  And speaking of players guides.....a SW book that is more in line with the D&D players guide would be an excellent idea.  Something that trims the races/cultures down to a not overwhelming volume and a potential player can purchase for $5.  I would regionalize it.  Then release a GM & players guide for each region.  Ie.  Northen Jaiman, the Bay of Izar, Thuul, etc.  I've always firmly belived (by my own track record) you can always sell more $$$ worth of 3$-6$ publications than 20$+ publications. 

[Peter R]

Somewhere on Nicholas's desk is a module called Priest King of Shade. It is a SW Module and it is my undersranding that it is just awaiting RMU stats and an editing pass.

It is entirely possible that Priest King is your gateway product. I will confess I haven't read it as I don't do SW except as a player.

I don't know much about Priest King, but I know a man who does.

[Siltoneous]

There must be something in the air, because I've been wondering this same thing; namely if I was to start a campaign in ShadowWorld, where would I start them?

I think my first choice would be "Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn".  As one review said, it's not a setting supplement, adventure book, nor a campaign, it's all three in a sandbox LIKE manner.  I'd say it's typical Amthor manner, the book goes into exhaustive detail about the town and the surrounding area.  After that, then it gives you 9 adventures to get going with, and several seed ideas.

The major downside here is that, as RPGNow states, it provides "stats for major NPCs in Rolemaster Second Edition/RM Classic and RMRFP /RMSS."  Could they be converted? Absolutely.  PITA, but doable.  I wonder if that kind of thing couldn't be community sourced, but there I wonder if you wouldn't have the problem of how only beta testers could see it.

In the end, I suspect I'll end up using one of the skeleton outlines from "Eidolon: City in the Sky" as a one-shot to introduce my group. I've always loved the Eidolon and Sel-Kai setting, so starting them there is easiest for me.  However, I've also been considering converting some other system's adventure module over to RMU.  Not many d100 generic adventures, so I've been looking hard at Monte Cook's "Ptolus Adventures" book, and/or the starter adventure from Zweihander.  The latter is already a d100 system, so it might be the most forgiving. =)

[kwickham]

I agree.  But, why convert?  Take a small module (Quellebourne/Norek/Xa'ar) and re-imagine a pre-gen adventure for RMU.  Shrine of the Spider Goddess (Quellebourne) has a nice classic FRP ring to it and some maps to support it.  Just detail that.  One fantastic gentle-person did that for Cyradon and that was a great success IMO.  ICE needs to create new IP not recycle the exact books over and over again.  Once enough of the smaller adventures are published and generating interest and revenue then ICE can either create new modules or just release an addendum for a book.  Also, republishing somewhat limits layout and art etc.  I'm not sure what ICEs standard will be moving forward but a book the size & quality of the SW players guide (which is a beautiful publication) could be the goal.  And speaking of players guides.....a SW book that is more in line with the D&D players guide would be an excellent idea.  Something that trims the races/cultures down to a not overwhelming volume and a potential player can purchase for $5.  I would regionalize it.  Then release a GM & players guide for each region.  Ie.  Northen Jaiman, the Bay of Izar, Thuul, etc.  I've always firmly belived (by my own track record) you can always sell more $$$ worth of 3$-6$ publications than 20$+ publications.

I like that idea.

Okay, looking at Quellborne as an example,

I can only see what is on the table of contents preview for Quellborne.

If one uses the Shrine of the Spider Goddess as the example. It looks like it might take up 1 page for introduction and partial history pertaining the shrine. 1 page for the land around the shrine and flora & fauna. 1/2 page for the Worshippers of the Spider Goddess. 1/2 page for places of power: the shrine of the spider goddess. 2 or 3 pages for places of adventure: The Shrine of the Spider Goddess. A partial page for PC background for the adventure. And 1 to 3 pages of charts for the adventure. That's about 10 pages for one single adventure if the table of contents is approximately correct.

I'd pay $1.99 for that single adventure if it has RMU stats, much like me buying a $1.50 mp3 song.

I think my first choice would be "Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn".  As one review said, it's not a setting supplement, adventure book, nor a campaign, it's all three in a sandbox LIKE manner.  I'd say it's typical Amthor manner, the book goes into exhaustive detail about the town and the surrounding area.  After that, then it gives you 9 adventures to get going with, and several seed ideas.

It looks like this book can be divided into smaller adventures or packaged into smaller chunks.

For a PDF, I'd pay $0.99 to $2.99 for a single Shrine of the Spider Goddess or Tales from the Green Gryphon Inn adventure chunk—lower if it is only text and lacks maps and art and higher if it had map and art. This is like buying a single song from an album—an MP3.

For a three part adventure of Quellborne or Green Gryphon Inn, I'd pay $5 range especially if they are connected, if include ~20-25 pages with maps and art, I'd expect that the third one finish off a major trilogy storyline and leave open further Quellborne or Green Gryphon Inn connections bringing my players levels up a few levels. This is like buying a single novel, music album, or watching/renting a movie.

For a regional sourcebook, I'd pay $10 to $20 for a full campaign regional area. This is like getting a greatest-hits album, a box set of books, a season of a TV show, or a movie series set.

If at a minimum, there is a single 10 page adventure for $1.99 or 2.99, I'll buy it and wait for futher RMU SW products. It would be better if there is at least a trilogy to keep me busy a few months while the rest of the content for RMU is made.

Maybe it's a good option for Terry releasing more one-shot 10 page adventures if he wants to, which I assume only would take less then a month to make, maybe even a week or two.

[B Hanson]

Rolemasterblog.com has published 47 d100 adventure seeds for use with Rolemaster. Most are only a single page but can be easily combined to make a more complex module. Most cost less than 99 cents.

[Siltoneous]

Rolemasterblog.com has published 47 d100 adventure seeds for use with Rolemaster. Most are only a single page but can be easily combined to make a more complex module. Most cost less than 99 cents.

Honestly I just bought that earlier this week on drivethrurpg.  Early holiday present to me from me. =)  Not had a chance to look through them all yet, but I suspect I'll be happy with the purchase.

[kwickham]

Somewhere on Nicholas's desk is a module called Priest King of Shade. It is a SW Module and it is my undersranding that it is just awaiting RMU stats and an editing pass.

It is entirely possible that Priest King is your gateway product. I will confess I haven't read it as I don't do SW except as a player.

I don't know much about Priest King, but I know a man who does.

What level is Priest King of Shade?

I'm going to be looking for level 1 to 3, 4, or 5. Unless it's long enough to cover 1 to finish.

[kwickham]

Rolemasterblog.com has published 47 d100 adventure seeds for use with Rolemaster. Most are only a single page but can be easily combined to make a more complex module. Most cost less than 99 cents.

If they are with stats for RMU, then maybe if SW doesn't reveal a RMU at by the core release. But I'm looking for ICE Shadow World entrance first.

[Witchking20k]

Anything released should weave RMU into SW as a way of combining the the IP.  The RM rule-set should be tweaked to properly reflect SW (which is already better than previous versions of RM IMO).  So, that a new player is playing a SW game not a RM game.

[Nightblade42]

Anything released should weave RMU into SW as a way of combining the the IP.  The RM rule-set should be tweaked to properly reflect SW (which is already better than previous versions of RM IMO).  So, that a new player is playing a SW game not a RM game.

I agree, RMU's entry module needs to be a SW module.  And tweaking the rules to reflect SW is also a must in order to properly marry RMU to SW.  Terry, Nicholas & everyone at ICE should be sitting down & deciding what SW area should be used as the entry point (Green Gryphon or Eidolon make a lot of sense for many reasons.  Also, re-working adventures from other modules (e.g. Spider Goddess) would also work & be a quick way to get the intro module put together (with some new updates to spice things up).  Again, I think there is a willing community of RMU playtesters who would be willing to help with stat conversion (since I know Terry prefers the RM2 ruleset (as do I  )).

But that's just my 2¢s…

Nightblade ->--

[Peter R]

None of the Rolemaster Blog adventure hooks are started for any specific RM version although I slip a few new monsters in here and there.

Also for clarification, the adventures I publish in the monthly fanzine are NOT Shadow World. I know nothing about SW and it would almost certainly trample all over Terry's intellectual property.

In 2019 I will focus on writing adventures for levels 1-5 Just in case there is a an RMU release. At least that way there will be a selection of starter adventures available at 99 cents each.

[kwickham]

I know these aren't specifically Terry's books, but this is more for third party developers or those that will help make SW RMU happen. I do so by not really caring about canonical books, rather just trying to get at least one thing for RMU.

As a sign of good faith for SW RMU hopes for a release beginning product, I just bought the six $7 or less Shadow World books which are not in RMU format.
$7 Shadow World Player Guide - The World
$5 Quellbourne: Land of the Silver Mist
$5 Kingdom of the Desert Jewel
$5 Islands of the Oracle
$5 Demons of the Burning Night
$4 The World of Vog Mur
$31 total

This would be like my version of Shadow World RMUkickstarter pledge of $31. Where I get my reward instantly.

I'm doing so just to dangle a carrot for those third party RMU Shadow World developers and end this post thread on a positive note.

[Terry K. Amthor]

Anything released should weave RMU into SW as a way of combining the the IP.  The RM rule-set should be tweaked to properly reflect SW (which is already better than previous versions of RM IMO).  So, that a new player is playing a SW game not a RM game.

I agree, RMU's entry module needs to be a SW module.  And tweaking the rules to reflect SW is also a must in order to properly marry RMU to SW.  Terry, Nicholas & everyone at ICE should be sitting down & deciding what SW area should be used as the entry point (Green Gryphon or Eidolon make a lot of sense for many reasons.  Also, re-working adventures from other modules (e.g. Spider Goddess) would also work & be a quick way to get the intro module put together (with some new updates to spice things up).  Again, I think there is a willing community of RMU playtesters who would be willing to help with stat conversion (since I know Terry prefers the RM2 ruleset (as do I  )).

But that's just my 2¢s…

Nightblade ->--

Green Gryphon started as a small adventure but ballooned! But it is good setting. Maybe I am naive (and/or ignorant) but I don't understand the angst about going to RMU. We already use RM Classic  (And yes I prefer it, because I know it!  ) and RM RMSS stats (converted by a third party) and they seem very similar to me. Certainly this is a small jump compared to converting to D&D... ?

And feel free to correct me; I promise not to be offended. I feel for Nicholas, because I will probably not learn RMU, so he will need someone to convert it for SW future book stats.

One question: it was suggested that with RMU we revise the page layout. I am for it, but not for wasteful gunk in the margins like 'Powers' but of course we want to use color. Any thoughts?

[egdcltd]

One question: it was suggested that with RMU we revise the page layout. I am for it, but not for wasteful gunk in the margins like 'Powers' but of course we want to use color. Any thoughts?

Stuff like that is okay - as long as you can either turn it off for printing, by using layers, or have a version that doesn't have it, which also tends to work better on mobile devices. I like full colour layouts with backgrounds, but not if I have to print them out! SWMA4 and Powers are both older PDFs and don't have layers. Newer ones probably wouldn't have the same problem.

[Witchking20k]

Realistically once Creatures & Treasures in complete the stats for a SW module should be basically cut & paste right?  The rest would be NPCs and I'm not sure that anything beyond an estimated set of skill bonuses etc is really necessary.  If the stats are included as an addendum for example they could be extra pamphlets (helping to hide them from players prying eyes..lol).  The other considerations would be Difficulty Ratings for things like locks, traps, and maneuvers.  When I write my own stuff I list them as "Hard, Medium" then use the relevant mods for whatever system I am running with.  All this to say that something like Green Gryphon could be easily re-skinned to RMU IMO. 
To me: writing the system into the setting and writing the setting into the system adds a layer of protection for theft (thin as that may be) and shifts the perception from playing Rolemaster to playing Shadow World.  I know, based on my 20+ years of peddling both, there will be greater success is getting new players to try a Shadow World campaign than a Rolemaster campaign.  So, if a short free to try product hits the market as Shrine of the Spider Queen: A Shadow World Adventure.  You are more likely to get that into the hands of new players & GMs. 

[intothatdarkness]

Converting to RMU would require stat bonus and skill adjustments for NPCs, since that's where the bulk of the changes occur. I suspect that wouldn't necessarily be hard one the conversion formula is determined, but it would be labor-intensive.

[kwickham]

Converting to RMU would require stat bonus and skill adjustments for NPCs, since that's where the bulk of the changes occur. I suspect that wouldn't necessarily be hard one the conversion formula is determined, but it would be labor-intensive.

NPC attribute stats & skills might be the easiest part of a conversion.

I don't know if formulas would work well. I just looked at the 1984 World of Vog Mur wolves on page 28. The wolves there probably would be one of the easier to make stats for since there are wolves in RMU CL. Offensive archetype Wolves are on pg 876 (digital 878) of RMU Creature Law.

The wolves avg level is too low. HP is slightly high, AT a little high, and DB is far too high. The OB is a tiny bit too high. It's missing the bash attack, though it has a bite attack. A strict numerical conversion would miss the bash attack addition.

With RMU, you could even make different types of wolves quickly just knowing the wolf race template and the offensive level archetype, not just the offensive default level wolves.

It might be best to start with the RMU base creature race stats, add the archetype bonuses for the SW level, and then adjust from there based on the SW spirit or essence of the NPC. RMU Creature Law numbers will not be genre specific escept maybe skills.

[kwickham]

One question: it was suggested that with RMU we revise the page layout. I am for it, but not for wasteful gunk in the margins like 'Powers' but of course we want to use color. Any thoughts?

Of the newer material, I only have the 2010 SW Player's Guide.

These are suggestions for layout based on what I have seen in other new games released in the past year and that I have bought.

The ones that look the best use color faded or transparent color backgrounds that don't interfere with the text. For background images, the colors blue, tan, and green are the most common colors. Some have background images using paper or marble. Futuristic books have circuit board-like, user interface circles, and curved ergonomic pattersm. Most of the color patterns are visible in the margins and fades more at the text block area. Some have interesting subtle patterns.

In all games that look great, they do add margin borders or frames if they do not have background images. They very from recognizable objects to patterns to almost abstract images. They don't, however, take your eyes away from the text. They don't add any margin text, especially that distracting sideways text.

Size-wise, they stay under 100 MB, preferably around 10 to 30 MB in size.

Having a layered document or a second plain printable version that only has text without any images would be great, since you know the price of printing ink is high.

[Siltoneous]

Having a layered document or a second plain printable version that only has text without any images would be great, since you know the price of printing ink is high.

I've often wondered about layers in PDF's, particularly how comfortable it is for non-techies to access.  I ask because for something like ShadowWorld, where HARP and RM both support it, if it wouldn't be possible to simply keep all system-specific creatures, etc in layers separate from the base text.  One PDF, but supports as many systems as you care, depending on which layers are visible and/or printed.