Topic: Spellcasting 101

[mocking bird]

If you can cast the spell automatically, you only need to roll on the Bolt attack table (or whatever attack table is relevant to the spell being used).  If you can't cast the spell automatically, you are required to make a "Spell Casting Static Maneuver" roll first, then (if successful) you roll the result on the Bolt attack table.

This is what Vroom and I were discussing.  It stated that if you autocast you roll and only fail/fumble on a 01 or 02.  I take this to mean that it is a separate roll from the BAR or attack roll, V was taking it to be the same one.  In either case 'automatically cast' is kind of a misnomer as you can still fumble.

V's reasons for not liking the initial roll are that it adds another roll for a fumble as you can still fumble on the bolt or BAR table.  This has also bothered me as it means a high DB can make you fumble a spell, kind of like rolling bad on a weapon attack giving a net of a big minus making you fumble your weapon.  As a compromise we count the 'F's on those charts as misses.

[Arioch]

Does this mean that a level 1 magician cannot cast the shock bolt spell?  It is level 2 (on the light law list) and he is level 1 (suggesting a penalty).

A character can cast any spell he knows (and he knows a spell if he has a number of rank in the spell's list equal or major to the spel level), provided that he has enough Power Points. So, if a 1st level magician has at least 2 ranks in Light Law he can cast Shock Bolt.
His Offensive Bonus with the Shock Bolt attack (which is rolled against his enemies after he cast the spell) is equal to his Shock Bolt skill (under the Directed Spell category).
He cannot develop a Shock Bolt skill until he is able to cast it at least once per day without modifiers (which means, until 2nd level for the Shock Bolt).
So, for the first level his OB with Shock Bolt is limited to his Directed Spells category bonus (he can deveolp ranks in the category as he whishes), -15 (because he has no ranks in Shock Bolt).
It's more clear? Or have I managed only to worsen your confusion? 

[Salem]

That helps... I'm beginning to see that a level 1 magician is a bit of a wiener when it comes to direct combat.

[mocking bird]

That is what fighters are for.  Wait till they get their ball spells or a decent directed spell bonus then the fighters become more like armor plated pointy speedbumps.

[Arioch]

For low levels I think that spells like Sleep V are better than bolts...

[markc]

Salem,
 1) Spell cast Auto: Yes
 2) Cant Auto Spell: Yes
 3) Spell Cast 1 round: Yes

House Rule:
Another situation that comes up is if a caster has an item that allows him to cast the spell, I let him develope Directed Spell "XXXX". In this way a 1st level mage can have a Dir. Spell. skill of some ranks. But this is a house rule because the rules say can cast it on thier own and this does not count items.

MDC

[Arioch]

House Rule:
Another situation that comes up is if a caster has an item that allows him to cast the spell, I let him develope Directed Spell "XXXX". In this way a 1st level mage can have a Dir. Spell. skill of some ranks. But this is a house rule because the rules say can cast it on thier own and this does not count items.

Actually the RMFRP book says that the character must be able to cast the spell without the need of a manuever either intrinsically or or from an item or runes... So it isn't a HR!

[markc]

House Rule:
Another situation that comes up is if a caster has an item that allows him to cast the spell, I let him develope Directed Spell "XXXX". In this way a 1st level mage can have a Dir. Spell. skill of some ranks. But this is a house rule because the rules say can cast it on thier own and this does not count items.

Actually the RMFRP book says that the character must be able to cast the spell without the need of a manuever either intrinsically or or from an item or runes... So it isn't a HR!

Thanks, I use RMSS and I must have missed that rule as I do not often look in the RMFRP book I inherited.
MDC

[DonMoody]

OK - I am confused.

I thought (as per RMSS) that:

"If a spell is cast automatically, no static maneuver is required. However, such a spell can still fail.
* All attack spells fail on an unmodified attack roll of 01-02 (see sections 23.6-23.8). A d100 roll should also be made for each non-attack spells [sic], the spell only fails on an unmodified roll of 01-02
* Attack spells can also fail on certain modified attack roll results. (see section 23.6-23.8)"

I thought if you met all the requirements to cast a spell automatically, there was no static maneuver and, if the spell was not an attack spell, it 'simply happened'.
For example, if I an casting a healing spell and I meet the requirements to cast the spell automatically, I just pay the power points and the healing happens.

Am I missing something from the rules?
Am I misunderstanding some of what was written above?

DonMoody

[Fidoric]

I think you always have to roll to cast a spell, as a fumble is always possible (02 UM ?).
However, you may easily skip those roll when out of action. A fumble have more consequences for example during a fight for it can stun your spellcaster when you would have him ok but it is less relevant while traveling or at home.

[DonMoody]

I think you always have to roll to cast a spell, as a fumble is always possible (02 UM ?).

Could you quote the rule for that?

I quoted what I believe to be the most relevant RMSS rule regarding automatic spellcasting.
I did not see a rule that states "you always have to roll to cast a spell" or the like.

DonMoody

[yammahoper]

An auto cast still requires a roll, as an UM of 01-02 fumbles.

Or, if it is a non attack spell, house rule no roll is ever needed.

Role playing and Burger King; Have it your way!

lynn

[DonMoody]

An auto cast still requires a roll, as an UM of 01-02 fumbles.

Can you point me to where I can find that in the rules?

I quoted what I thought as the most relevant RMSS rule but could not find a rule that explicitly stated you had to make a roll when auto casting.

I thought if you met all the requirements for automatic spell casting, then "no static maneuver is required" and thus no roll unless the spell is an attack roll and an attack roll is required.

I'll take another look when I get home but wouldn't mind some help pointing me in the correct direction ....

DonMoody

[markc]

I think you always have to roll to cast a spell, as a fumble is always possible (02 UM ?).

Could you quote the rule for that?

I quoted what I believe to be the most relevant RMSS rule regarding automatic spellcasting.
I did not see a rule that states "you always have to roll to cast a spell" or the like.

DonMoody

 I am pritty sure you allways have to roll to see if it is a fumble or not just like any other skill as per the quote you provided.

 Spell casting can be a bit confusing so keep the questions coming if you are havinf trouble. But note that house rules can have a large impact on spell casters hand thier power in the game.

 MDC

[Arioch]

Can you point me to where I can find that in the rules?

Just as you said:

* All attack spells fail on an unmodified attack roll of 01-02 (see sections 23.6-23.. A d100 roll should also be made for each non-attack spells [sic], the spell only fails on an unmodified roll of 01-02

You should roll for each spell you cast, not only attack spells, and all spells fail on an unmodified roll of 01-02 if auto-cast conditions are met.

OTOH I find rolling for each spell cast boring, so as an HR we've cutted the second part of rule and made failure possible only for attack spells. 

[yammahoper]

Not rolling is fine by me, but the information spell fumble table is a BLAST.

So I recommend the GM rolling a secret roll with an 2% chance of the spell providing misinformation (i.e. a roll on the table).

lynn

[pastaav]

"If a spell is cast automatically, no static maneuver is required. However, such a spell can still fail.

If you do automatic spell casting you avoid the SCSM...but you still need to do the regular spell casting roll since this is needed to determine if you fumble and to determine the modifier that will be applied to the targets RR roll to resist the effect.

In practice you with automatic spell casting manage to cast the spell 98 times out 100, but if the spell is tricky there is a large probability that the spell fail to effect the target. When SCSM is required you add risk that the spell fails, or that it is delayed, but it does not change the rest of the steps in spell casting procedure.

The rules that explains this are rather obfuscated. I had to be educated about it back in the days of the RM mailing list. In essence part of the information must be deducted from looking at the modifiers to tables in question....

At this point it may also be worth commenting that the rules are rather misleading for what is done when spell failure happens. Look at the sign of the penalties and think for yourself since the book description might trick you to apply them in such way that they aid the caster instead of making the task harder.

[Rivstyx]

101 binary spell is the 5th level spell!!

It is also 5 in Hexadecimal.  Hexes and Spells seem to go together

[RandalThor]

So this is the "way" right?:

If you meet the requirements for automatic spellcasting, then you either go on to the Base Attack Roll or the Elemetal Attack Roll. (Both of which have the ability to fail/fumble and make the spell extra-special, each in their own special way.)

If you do not meet the requirements, then you must first make a Spellcasting Static Maneuver to see if you even are able to cast the spell (then go on to the above mentioned rolls).

Right?!?

[Arioch]

If you meet the requirements for automatic spellcasting:

- if you are casting a Base Attack Spell roll on the BAR table
- if you're casting a Directed Spell, make an Elemental Attack Roll
- otherwise roll a d%: the spell fumble on a result of 2 or lower

If you do not meet the requirements, you must first make a Spellcasting Static Maneuver and then if you're casting an attack spell see above.