Author Topic: Body size and weapon size  (Read 3512 times)

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Offline Ecthelion

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Body size and weapon size
« on: December 20, 2007, 08:22:56 AM »
Hi,

in the HARP books I did not find any rules or guidelines on what weapons a character may use depending on his race or rather body size. A Halfling using a two-hand sword with almost twice his size is probably out of the question, but what about a Gnome wielding a bastard sword? Or might a Halfling use a spear? I'd be glad if someone could point me to official rules or give some guidelines on what to allow and what not.

Thanks

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Body size and weapon size
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 09:31:47 AM »
There are no official rules regarding such. Nor even any written guidelines. You are expected, however, to use a little common sense  ;D 

If the weapon is bigger than you and/or weighs more than you do, chances are you ain't gonna be able to use it.  ;D

Then again, the smaller races most likely have the equivalent types of weapons (and a 2-handed sword for a Halfling might look a little small for a human, but it should work just as efficiently (since Halflings can be just as strong as humans).


Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Body size and weapon size
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 10:33:10 AM »
There are no official rules regarding such. Nor even any written guidelines. You are expected, however, to use a little common sense  ;D

OK, we'll try  ;).

Quote
Then again, the smaller races most likely have the equivalent types of weapons (and a 2-handed sword for a Halfling might look a little small for a human, but it should work just as efficiently (since Halflings can be just as strong as humans).

I agree only in part. If that Halfling wields a 2-handed sword which is 4.5' long instead of 5.5' then indeed it might be the halfling version of a normal 2-handed sword. But still this weapon is 1.5 times as big as a normal Halfling, where, as you correctly pointed out, "chances are you ain't gonna be able to use it". But if said Halfling wields a very small version of a 2-handed sword which is only 3' long instead of 5.5' then he is effectively wielding only a broadsword. And then IMO he should do damage with it as with a broadsword.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Body size and weapon size
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2007, 01:16:57 PM »
IIRC, the estock is a 2-handed sword, and is only about 3' long....

length alone does not dictate the weapon, how it is used also does.....


Offline Marc R

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Re: Body size and weapon size
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2007, 02:30:50 PM »
Estock is a triangular or diamond cross section, essentially a thick metal spike with a sword-like handle and usually no useful sharp edges. . .used as a thin mace or as a stabber to pierce heavy plate armor.

Due to the thick "blade" it was a lot heavier by length than a sword of comperable length.

From what I can see looking it up online, it often had a "bastard" hilt, used one or two handed, the hilt length was also important to balance out the wieght of the blade in 1hd mode. Once you got the point into a chink in someone's armor, you could use both hands to push or drag your weight on it, or use it as a lever. . .nasty weapon.

But it doesn't seem to be a "sword" except that it had a sword handle.

To get an actual sword 3' long that was comperable to a 6' 2HD sword, it'd need to have a 6" wide blade. . .like a really, really long cleaver. sounds like one of those things you see orcs weilding.
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Offline Fidoric

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Re: Body size and weapon size
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 02:47:02 PM »
It's perfectly right. Part of what makes a weapon dangerous is its mass, another one in the way it's swung. A two-handed sword is either used as a thrusting weapon with little movement (typically your estock) and the make piercing attacks or with large sweeping movement using the inertia of the heavy blade at full advantage.
In the former case, a halfling could do as much damage as a human, providing he can lift the sword.
In the latter case, a halfling would be very less effective than a human because of his shorter arm and blade. He would also lack in 'bracing' and could end a swing spinning around.
I think we can say you can use 1-handed a weapon of your size and two-handed a weapon a size bigger than you, providing it's possible. Thus, a halfling (small size) could use a broadsword using two-hands but would still be doing medium attacks.
Maybe each weapon could be given a relative size. For example, a broadsword could be said +0, its size being the same as the race it is designed for and a 2-handed weapon could be a +1, making human broadswords medium weapons, human two-handed  swords large weapons, halfling broadsword small weapons and halfling two-handed swords medium weapons.
I think that is realistic for slashing and crushing weapons
Thrusting weapons of any race could be of of the same size, I can't see any difference between being stabbed by a halfling spear or a gryx one.
Maybe missiles weapons could ignore this. As you pointed out, Razyr, a halfling may be nearly as strong as a human. So they should be able to have bows with similar tensions dealing similar damages.

All of this could also lead in having short races using spears and polearms rather than heavy weapons, compensing their lack of weight and strength by using weapons for which they are not important. The shortest races should never use crushing weapon as they put the more emphasis upon a weigthed end. Your average halfling or gnome fighter would then end to wear light armor, to keep the benefit of his high quickness, and wield bows and spears, as they are as dangerous in his hands as a spear and more easy to wield than a mace.
OTOH, I think heavy races (large) would be more attracted toward the heavier weapons, the elements above being reversed for them.


In complement of the size, maybe a minimum strength bonus could be required to lift some weapons. I remember someone has done a complete listing of RM weapons with stats including minimum required strength somewhere. I think it was in a Guildcompanion article. Almost anybody can effectively wield a spear in combat (if the size is right), whereas using a sword requires more strength and a mace even more so.
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Offline lorenen

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Re: Body size and weapon size
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2007, 03:09:53 AM »
i like the idea of:

small size races use normal size weapons as two handed.
small size races use small size weapon as one handed.

so an halfling made two hand sword its just like a broadsword in regard of mass and size, shape is actually that of a two handed sword.

a dagger becames a short sword and a short sword becames a normal sword.

this sounds very "harpish" to me, other way if it becomes more complicated than its too "rolemasterish"   ;D



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Offline Fidoric

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Re: Body size and weapon size
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2007, 03:27:18 AM »
It must come from all those years playing Rolemaster...
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