Topic: shielding Weapon DB bonus question

[Tywyll]

How much DB bonus does Shielding weapon Combat Style give?  What percent/part of his style bonus is a modifier to his DB?  My copy doesn't actually list the amount.

[WoeRie]

Martial Law Page 18: Half of the total Shielding Weapon Combat Style bonus (max. 50) plus possible modifier for your weapon (like Main gauge +15).

[Ecthelion]

But e.g. the +15 modifier for a Main Gauche is only granted if the user has the Shield Training talent, right? Because for untrained users a Main Gauche IIRC only has a +0 bonus.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Ecthe lion -- Correct - It requires the Shield Training talent.

Tywyll - as WoeRie points out:

Martial Law Page 18: Half of the total Shielding Weapon Combat Style bonus (max. 50) plus possible modifier for your weapon (like Main gauge +15).

This grants a modifier to DB of up to 50 points. If character has a OB of 40 in this style, they get half of that as a DB modifier (i.e. +20 to DB), if they have an OB of 66 with the style, they get +33 to DB. If they have an OB of 150, they only get +50 to DB (cause they have reached the max).

And if their Shielding weapon is a Main Gauche or a Sai, then if they are Trained to use it defensively (Shield Training talent), they get the shielding bonus from that weapon as well (+15 for the Main Gauche and the Sai), giving a possible total max of +65 to DB

[WoeRie]

What about the possible magical or masterwork modifers? Would they add to the DB?
And other bonuses like Skill Specializations or profession modfiers (like the +5 to any favored skill)?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

What about the possible magical or masterwork modifers? Would they add to the DB?

If it would give a bonus to the weapon's shield bonus, then yes it would count. Most bonuses, however, are OB related (and thus can be used in parrying) and do not likely count towards the Shield Bonus of the weapon.

And other bonuses like Skill Specializations or profession modfiers (like the +5 to any favored skill)?

Well, such bonuses would apply to the skill's total bonus, wouldn't they? And in doing so, they do not change how the skill works (other than letting you max out on the bonus to DB quicker).

[WoeRie]

Thanks a lot for the fast reply. I played it that way, but was not sure if it was correct.

[Ecthelion]

What about the possible magical or masterwork modifers? Would they add to the DB?

If it would give a bonus to the weapon's shield bonus, then yes it would count. Most bonuses, however, are OB related (and thus can be used in parrying) and do not likely count towards the Shield Bonus of the weapon.

So a +5 Main Gauche would typically have the +5 count only for the OB, right? Would it be possible to purchase a +5 Main Gauche that has the +5 count only for the DB? Would it cost the same as a "normal" Main Gauche? And would it be possible to purchase a Main Gauche that gives +5 to OB and +5 to DB? If so, what would it cost?

Thanks

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

So a +5 Main Gauche would typically have the +5 count only for the OB, right? Would it be possible to purchase a +5 Main Gauche that has the +5 count only for the DB? Would it cost the same as a "normal" Main Gauche? And would it be possible to purchase a Main Gauche that gives +5 to OB and +5 to DB? If so, what would it cost?

Yes, normally such bonuses are for OB only (which also allows the Bonus to be applied to DB through parrying -- which is something completely different than the shielding bonus that such a weapon has).

Shielding Weapons (like the Main Gauche and Sai) get their DB bonus from their design and how that design is used defensively (which is why it ONLY applies when not attacking with that weapon).

Now, personally, I don't think that special materials would increase that "design/usage" bonus to DB. Though special materials can most certain increase its OB (i.e. harder materials making it easier to penetrate armor).

Workmanship, is a bit more iffy. It requires a judgment call on the part of the GM as to whether or not a craftsman can improve on the design enough to grant it a bonus (personally, I would require 2 bonus increments for a single +5 to defensive side of the item).

Now, a truly magical bonus (via the Imbue Bonus spell) can give the weapon a magical (not based on material or workmanship) bonus to DB, but that would give an overall modifier to DB whenever the item was held (i.e. drawn, not holstered). Then again, I would also make it more difficult to enchant an offensive item with a defensive bonus as well.

As for costs? Those would be setting dependent, and thus up to the GM.

[Ecthelion]

This sounds like the general suggestion is to normally not allow bonus Shielding Weapons to give an extra bonus to the DB - which is fine with me.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Yeah... I get that too and have no problem with it

[Tywyll]

Ecthe lion -- Correct - It requires the Shield Training talent.

Tywyll - as WoeRie points out:

Martial Law Page 18: Half of the total Shielding Weapon Combat Style bonus (max. 50) plus possible modifier for your weapon (like Main gauge +15).

This grants a modifier to DB of up to 50 points. If character has a OB of 40 in this style, they get half of that as a DB modifier (i.e. +20 to DB), if they have an OB of 66 with the style, they get +33 to DB. If they have an OB of 150, they only get +50 to DB (cause they have reached the max).

And if their Shielding weapon is a Main Gauche or a Sai, then if they are Trained to use it defensively (Shield Training talent), they get the shielding bonus from that weapon as well (+15 for the Main Gauche and the Sai), giving a possible total max of +65 to DB

So, does that mean:

If I have a style skill of +100, I get +50 DB and still get to attack with a +100?  Just to be sure I understand it correctly.

Also, how would this skill work in RM?  I've never really liked that RM doesn't take into account using one's off-hand weapon to parry (at least, I can't find a rule that allows TWF skill to be used for anything other than two attacks, with any parry subtracted from both).  I'd like to port something like this over to RM... would this work or be unbalanced?

Thanks!

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

So, does that mean:

If I have a style skill of +100, I get +50 DB and still get to attack with a +100?  Just to be sure I understand it correctly.

Correct. But remember, he only gets 1 attack.

Also, how would this skill work in RM?  I've never really liked that RM doesn't take into account using one's off-hand weapon to parry (at least, I can't find a rule that allows TWF skill to be used for anything other than two attacks, with any parry subtracted from both).  I'd like to port something like this over to RM... would this work or be unbalanced?

RM actually does, sort of...

If you look at 02-04 Shield - Parry Table on page 14 of the RMC Arms Law, it shows weapons giving a +5 to DB if they are not used to attack. No skill in the weapon required for this.

To port this over to RM, it is simple This skill is a variant of Two Weapon Combo, instead of a second attack, they get the additional DB, so we base the style restrictions on those for TWC, with some adjustments for the particulars of this style. The following restriction apply for this style:

• Must have equal or higher number of skill ranks in each of the two weapons used with this style, than he does in the style skill.
• Second weapon must be a small, light weapon. For RM, I would limit this to nothing larger than a small short sword.
• If parrying, only 1/2 of the amount that the OB is reduced by is applied to DB. This skill can never add to DB an amount greater than the total skill bonus. (i.e. if you have an OB of 100 in this style, and that gives you +50 to DB; if you reduce your OB by 50, you only get an additional +25 to DB (for a total of +75). (Note: just realized that this needed to be added as a balancing factor).
• Using this style requires 90%-100% activity for the round, just as TWC does.