Author Topic: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed  (Read 4048 times)

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Offline Ecthelion

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Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« on: November 03, 2007, 04:44:04 AM »
Hi,

the description on learning weapon skills says that Pole Arms may be used equally well one-handed and two-handed. Does the skill for using e.g. a spear one-handed and two-handed have to be learned separately, just like for a Katana, to avoid a -20 modifier for the usage not learned? Or are both usages learned automatically when training Pole Arms skill?

Thanks

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2007, 08:07:17 AM »
I would say that they have to be learned as separate skills. There are certain ways of holding and using the item that differ when you use 1 or 2 hands.


Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2007, 09:13:49 AM »
OK, thanks.

kazapp

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2007, 06:23:35 AM »
Can you use any polearm one-handed? Not only a spear, but a halberd, pole axe or pike too?

Regards,

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2007, 06:43:42 AM »
depends on its actual size/length, I would say... (cause the head at the end would determine how well it is balanced for 1 handed use)


kazapp

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2007, 08:18:43 AM »
Thanks. The reason for asking was that the examples given in the table on page 46 seems to concentrate only on those "polearms" that you indeed can wield onehanded.

Myself, I wouldn't lump spears and javelins with polearms; and then make polearms solely a twohanded weapon skill.

Whether to add polearms to the "Two Handed" skill (and rename "Pole Arms" into something like "Spear Weapons") or simply to split "Pole Arms" into two groups, only one of which the note about "unique in that they may be used equally well either one-handed or two-handed" applies to.

That is; either

Spear Weapons
__Spear Weapons (Spear, Javelin, Trident, ...)
Two Handed
__Pole Arms (Halberd, Pike, Pollaxe, ...)
__Great Blades (...)
...

or

Pole Arms
__Spear Weapons (Spear, Javelin, Trident, ...)
__Pole Arms (Halberd, Pike, Pollaxe, ...)
Two Handed
__Great Blades (...)

On second thought, why not simply add a "One Handed Piercing" category to match "One Handed Slashing" and "One Handed Crushing"? Then a weapon that can be used two handed, like perhaps the trident, can simply belong in the same note/category as the katana.

That would give:
One Handed Slashing
__Axes
__Long Blades
__Short Blades
__Thrusting Blades
One Handed Crushing
__Chains Plus
__Clubs
One Handed Piercing
__Spears Plus
...
Two Handed
__Great Blades
__Pole Arms
...


kazapp

PS. Not sure I like my term "Spear Weapons". It doesn't immediately suggest weapons like lances and tridents, which it should. Any suggestion on a general term for "spearlike weapons light enough to be wielded onehanded"? Or will "Spears Plus" do?

Offline Right Wing Wacko

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2007, 08:34:42 AM »
I like what you are doing, but do you think the weapon skill categories need to be changed? Can't we leave them as is and just use common sense when determinig ability to use a weapon 1-handed or 2-handed (as Tim seems to suggest)?

I have toyed with the weapons before but always end up with a bigger headache than when I started! :(

Example: I wanted a knife and a dagger to be different... made the dagger a puncture weapon and the knife a slashing weapon.
Have you noticed that a dagger and short sword have the same attack size?
Why can't I do puncture damage with my broad sword if I stab somebody? (It is a slashing weapon by the book).

I liked the old RM tables where the same weapon did differing types of damage according to the roll. A battle axe could end up doing slashing or crushing damage!

Anyhow, just some food for thought...
A military solution isn't the only answer, just one of the better ones.
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kazapp

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 03:32:19 PM »
I like what you are doing, but do you think the weapon skill categories need to be changed? Can't we leave them as is and just use common sense when determinig ability to use a weapon 1-handed or 2-handed (as Tim seems to suggest)?
Sure you can!  :)

Only thing is that there is already a division between onehanded and twohanded weapons, so it seems like a perfect candidate to also apply this thinking (already in the book) to polearms too.

Offline Right Wing Wacko

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2007, 07:20:44 PM »
I really haven't decided about it yet... ;)
Have you decided yet how you are going to structure the weapon categories?
I would like to see it when you have finished ;D
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Offline Right Wing Wacko

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 05:20:01 PM »
kazapp...
have you decided how the weapon categories should be structured to take into account the 1- and 2- handed use of polearms?
What you have above looks good, but I am waiting for your final decision ;D
A military solution isn't the only answer, just one of the better ones.
www.strategypage.com

"Note #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game."- markc

kazapp

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 07:10:45 AM »
Sorry for the delay, but as I have opted for a rather different approach, I hesitated to answer.

If you're interested, I find HARP's default skill division too easily makes characters helpless when they are left without their favourite weapon. I'm not saying my approach isn't necessarily better, just different. It is meant to be used in a campaign where the focus is moved from the gear to the character.

Enough talk! By my rules, Weapon Skills are simply divided up into seven skills. There are no "weapon classes" or "weapon groups", just individual skills (much like for the skills "Crafts" and "Mundane Lore").
  • 1H Crushing
  • 1H Piercing
  • 1H Slashing
  • Thrown
  • Missile
  • 2H Weapons
  • Unarmed

You'll notice how I have switched from "edged" to "slashing" for instance. I am deliberatedly referencing the damage types available for one-handed weapons, making the character's action control the skill rather than the weapon itself. Thus, if you make a sweep with an Halberd (doing slashing damage) you'll use 2H Weapons (as you need both hands and make a Large crit), but if you instead make a thrust (doing piercing damage) you'll use 1H Piercing...

The original rules' allowance to get up to a +25 bonus with an unfamiliar weapon is replaced by you probably wanting to buy at least one rank in each of most of these seven skills to not feel completely awkward if your normal weapon breaks or is stolen.

I have kept the rules mechanism for "default weapon" though, so you still feel some hurt when you're forced to replace your Club for a Mace, for instance.

To avoid characters easily becoming all-around combat monsters, I'm making these skills cost double (4 or 8 DP instead of the usual 2/4) per rank.

kazapp

PS. But to answer your question, RWW, I'd probably choose my third option above (the one where 1H spears sort under "1H piercing" and 2H polearms sort under "Two Handed"). By looking at my own rules you should see why I would choose that!  :)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 07:18:51 AM by kazapp »

Offline jurasketu

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 11:53:37 PM »
I like that idea kazapp.

I'd also like to offer a couple more perspectives that folks might want to think about. But its strays off-topic - so I'll open another thread.
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kazapp

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Re: Pole Arms skill 1-handed & 2-handed
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2007, 03:49:03 AM »
Did you just give me an Idea Point? Thanks!  :)

I agree we are off topic.