Topic: Bazaar 11

[Hawkwind]

I'm intending to test this system in my next session, which will be in about 10 hours (really must go to bed and get some sleep  ) Any suggestions on which crit table to use for Holy crits, as the party's cleric uses Celestial Ball from the HnS rules? My guess would be either the electrical (most likely) or heat tables. Also, suggestions for Slaying weapons would be interesting - but certainly not essential, as no-one in the group has a Slaying weapon.

Hawk
 

[Right Wing Wacko]

I would use electrical crits for Celestial Ball and Bolt...

And good question about the "of Slaying" weapons... lets wait and see what Tim says!

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Holy crits -- use electrical (blue bolt from heaven) hehe

Of Slaying -- Do an extra critical (External Poison Critical from the HARP core book) of the same severity (use the same severity mods on the table as well).

Or you could use the critical tables from Hack N Slash (treating any results below a one as a result of one).

The adjustments for critical severity work just as well on the HARP and HnS crits as they do on the ones from HB 11.

[Fikus]

HB11 is exactly what I was waiting for! Thank you!

About the "two attack rolls",  I think I will use the attack roll, inverting the dices for the critical table. A 85 attack dice would become a 58 on the critical table, etc. Maybe the only trouble is that 80 et 90 results on the critical would be very rare.

And I don't know yet if I will use the new weapon statistics... I'm afraid of too much datas for my players. We'll see.

(I hope you'll understand me, I'm sorry for my poor english)

[Ecthelion]

About the "two attack rolls",  I think I will use the attack roll, inverting the dices for the critical table. A 85 attack dice would become a 58 on the critical table, etc. Maybe the only trouble is that 80 et 90 results on the critical would be very rare.

...and this will have quite some impact on the game, because results like 80, 90, 100, 110, 120 are the most severe on the critical table. And these results you would kind of remove with your rule. I would suggest giving the two dice rolls a chance. In most cases the result on the attack table indicates no hit or only some concussion hits and then no second roll is required. Only in cases of a critical result a second roll is required.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Yeah... try it as is first... your method seems flawed as per Ecthelion above.

I would keep the weapon modifiers too. The system is "balanced" with them, if you remove them, you might unbalance things...
I actually like the mods myself, adds a little more realism and spice to the game!

[Fikus]

You're certainly right.

It seems I can't play a game without modifying the rules. (maybe I played too much DD3...) Let's try before change!

[Hawkwind]

Well we playtested the HB11 combat system in our session last Sunday, and I generally got a negative reaction from the players. We have been using the HnS combat system, and the general feeling was that this was no where near as good.

The players didn't mind the second roll for the critical, or the fact that a bad roll on the critical could make a good roll into a bad result, but they all thought that the damage throshold on the core charts was way too high. As an example the party's 7th level ranger was attacking a 5th level fighter who was wearing rigid leather. The fighter had a DB of 93 (reduced to 78 through the armour reduction rules) and was parrying with 30 of his OB for an adjusted total DB of 108. The ranger has to get an adjusted roll of 61 to do even 1 point of damage to the fighter. The same roll using HnS would be a 48 (cause the fighter would have an extra 15 DB) which would do a 10F, which is 17 hits(total), 1 round of stun and an MP of -10. The main thing my players like about the HnS system is that it makes combats generally quite fast so they can get on with the rest of the adventure. As it turned out this ended up being a quick combat anyhow, but only because the party's cleric rolled really well on her celestial ball and then really well again on the C holy crit which stunned both the bad guys for 6 rounds - effectively combat over.

Most of my group have played RM2 in the past, so they quite enjoyed the RM-style crit tables, but the overall feeling was that the tables need to start doing damage at a much lower level. However, I quite like the fumble charts and will probably use them rather than the ones from the core rules.

Hawk

[black flag]

I think like You; I prefer the H'N'S for the fast and exciting combats, but I prefer the fumble tables from HB 11.

[WoeRie]

I will do the same and only use the Fumble table (it looks soooooooo great for an evil gm ).
I think that the greatest advantage of H&S is that the combat is very fast and straightforward.

So, thanks for the "playtest" hawkwind. 

[Ecthelion]

Hawkwind, from what I read above it looks like you used the new system but the combatants allocated their parry amounts like for the previous, deadlier H&S system. Perhaps combat would be faster again if the characters behaved a bit more offensive - as the modified system allows them to do. But generally I think that, if you were used to H&S and liked that system, there is no reason to change. For me the new combat system is a reason to give HARP a second try.

[black flag]

The great force of HARP is that it offers choice to masters & players alike;I like H'N'S, other HB 11, other ML....great! there're no doubt to me that HARP is the better RPG (I wait Something Wicked like my first "rendez-vous" with a girlfriend ).
I like 'realistic" combats; HB 11 is less deadly that H'N'S (I tried and with an equal roll the results are very differents; in H'N'S if you roll a great score: great damages, but HB 11 like in OLD RM even if you rolled a great score, maybe the roll for crit will be a minute 01...aaarrrggghh). I take H'N'S with the rule for protective armors from ML (but only with chains and up, no more damages with leather and so...).
When I play a game session and when a combat begin, I see in my mind the Lord of the Rings battles: bow are deadly, like an axe hit in the head
SMACK... I love HARP and it's numerous choices!

[GMLovlie]

I?m going to test this combat system, but most likely I will use RM crit tables, simply because it creates more varied results. And this way I can use fun martial arts attacks like nerve strikes and similar.. indeed nice.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Should the DB modifiers to armor come directly off the PC's DB from armor?

I mean, (without having books in front of me), a PC has Chain that grants a DB of +30... the armor modifiers in HB 11 say to subtract 10 from DB.  Now, could I just replace the Core Book DB value of Chain with the modified DB from HB11?

Hence the Chain only grants +20 to DB?

[GMLovlie]

That?s the way I read it, so I would say yes.

[Right Wing Wacko]

Thanks! Yeah, it SEEMS to make sense that way...

Anybody else have any ideas?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I left it vague, because it is supposed to come off their DB, period. But I also didn't want to say that I was reducing the DB value of the armor (figured folks would yell, if I did that hehe).

[Right Wing Wacko]

 

[black flag]

Dear Rasyr
Can You give us the stats for weapons of ML? PLEASE.
And questions about DB:
You said that the armour worn ptrotect the torso. But You said that You discount DB from torso and helm. Why helm and not only counting the torso?
If a monster with Tough Hide want wear an armour, how handle this?
The DB for monsters with Tough Hide must be down with the DB torso too?

I want to try HB 11, but with acid, and other I'll use crit tables from RMC. 

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Dear Rasyr
Can You give us the stats for weapons of ML? PLEASE.

There are enough weapons there that it would take me a sizable portion of time to convert them for use with these rules, therefore, as I said before, they can go into the next issue of HB. Sorry.

And questions about DB:
You said that the armour worn ptrotect the torso. But You said that You discount DB from torso and helm. Why helm and not only counting the torso?

Because the DB value of "Helm + Torso" = 1/2 total DB for full suit of armor, and THAT is what I wanted to be discounted.

If a monster with Tough Hide want wear an armour, how handle this?
The DB for monsters with Tough Hide must be down with the DB torso too?

Tough Hide -- use only 1/2 normal DB given for the type of Tough Hide. Compare the normal DB Bonus to those of full suits of armor to determine which column it should be attacked on.

Tough Hide With Armor - use the better attack column to use. They do get BOTH DB bonuses from the Hide and Armor, so no further adjustments required.

I want to try HB 11, but with acid, and other I'll use crit tables from RMC. 

For acid attacks, you can treat it as an elemental attack (using Heat crits, since acid "burns"). RMC does not have an acid critical table (RM2 had one in one of the companions though).