Topic: Seeking Aid in a Proposed Online Character Database.

[Warl]

Was Just talking with one of My players the other night.
Neither of us have the programming skills for this, But thought it would be an Awesome Resource for the Whole Community.

What I am looking for/Proposing is a Site that has a Fillable Character sheet (not necessarily build a character, but that might be kewl to have as a Secondary option.) One that a "user" can go back and Edit his own work add additional Characters and so forth and have a Running Biography. Possibly even the ability to o back in their character history to see previous level states of the character.
As a Group, People Could View other peoples Characters and even print off copies of those characters for "NPCs" in their own games.

Is this a Pipe dream? is their anyone out there with the Know how and interest in such a Site?
What would it take as far as resources?

[RandalThor]

I am no internet server professional, but I would imagine it would take server space, exactly how much depends upon how large each of the files would be. And that is dependent upon the program used, I imagine, though I cannot believe they would be larger than a few hundred KB each, up to a maximum of 1 to 2 MB. As there aren't a whole lot of RM players to use it, the sight wouldn't have to have multiple TB, if not just a couple hundred GB. Of course, all of that goes out the window if you include character portraits, which could take up a bit of space.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Nowadays, storage place isn't much of a problem, though. For instance, my site subscription gives me unlimited storage place (of which I don't even use 8 Go)... Nor is bandwidth, really.

[VladD]

If they are RM/ HARP characters I imagine you may upload them to the vault. Simply make an excel worksheet, or something, that everyone should use and start uploading.

Looking at the vault; it has never been popular to upload one's character. I think that most people that come here are GMs.

[Voriig Kye]

A public folder on Google Drive could host characters, maybe subdivided by GM and campaign.
Also versioning would not be a problem, since you are allowed to add "revisions" to a file, thus piling versions one over the other, keeping access to all of them if need be.

[markc]

"Old ICE" wanted to do this in the past but it became a problem, IIRC do to Database cost issues on the server as well as having a official character creation app to use on the DB server.
MDC

[vroomfogle]

With the types of web frameworks (django being my web framework of choice) that are available now an online character app would be fairly trivial.   It would take some time, but not as much as you would think.   The most time consuming part would be site design and layout, not the backend database and interface.   Storage would definitely not be a problem, we're talking about something pretty light-weight storage wise, even if you were to have it include all spell lists and names (since they'd be shared among all users).

I'd love to do something like this, but wouldn't have the time for a while. But I do think an online character generator/management system would greatly lower the barrier to entry since anyone could go and make a character.  No installing software, no requirement of Excel or LibreOffice and dealing with version incompatibilities, etc.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

The headache would probably be characters' compatibility, though; not only between RM2, RMSS, RMFRP and, one day, RMU characters but, even inside a given system (especially RM2 IMO), two characters may completely be incompatible due to the options with which their respective GMs play.
Not even to mention the levels' incompatibility since, as shown in the Levels of NPC's throughout the population of your game world. thread, a 50th level character may be a god in one game and merely an exceptional character in others.

[Warl]

I have found that between systems, there isn't that much Incompatibility.  Most of it can be overlooked when Using a character as an NPC.

At least to me, 99% of the difference between RM2 and RMSS is Character creation and Development. Beyond that, resolution is the same.

This is something I have thought would be kewl for years.... If I knew how to implement it, I would do so Myself. I would even be willing to help provide webspace...I jsut have no clue as to where to even begin on such.

[Merkir]

With the types of web frameworks (django being my web framework of choice) that are available now an online character app would be fairly trivial.

I agree online is the way to go, and Django or Ruby on Rails IMO are the front runners. My own companies don't touch anything else (until the next big "thing" comes along).

The ORM and unstyled UI would be trivial, but plenty of business/game logic rules and graphic design would lead to it taking a while, but certainly very doable.

If anyone is going to do it, and I would love to if I had the time, I recommend considering incorporating what i have previously called an "OCCC" - an Online Character Creation & Conversion system, especially to migrate D&Ders.  I describe is within a post here: http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=12697.msg163046#msg163046

And at the risk of repeating, I've pasted the relevant section below:

2. Rolemaster needs a "splinter effect" (and an OCCC)

Many D&D players splintered off to Pathfinder. There's no reason players wouldn't splinter off from D&D/Pathfinder/AnyRPG to Rolemaster as long as they're given the right incentive/catalyst. How?

The catalyst I'm thinking of is an Online Character Creation & Conversion system (OCCC). (I'm aware of http://www.icewebring.com/articles-and-indexes/reviews/rolemaster-character-software-companion/ btw).

How would the OCCC work?

  A. D&D players (or other RPGers) - could enter their existing character (Name, Race, Sex, Class, Level, Attributes, Weapons, etc.) and the OCCC would convert to an equivalent Rolemaster character, complete with random skills, traits, background, disabilities, full attack charts for their weapons, spell lists, a magic item or two, etc.  Any narrative fields could be edited by the player.

  B. For new players a fully developed character would be created, as above, but of course no conversion required.

In both cases the result is a full set of character sheets including all necessary charts, and even bells and whistles like a character portrait and weapon images.

The important thing is that the software needs to be slick and professional. Again, it has to have wow factor. I cannot stress this enough. A half-hearted effort would be a disaster.

Reviewers of the "new" Rolemaster and its OCCC need to rave. Reviews are one major avenue to receive a flow of new players to RM.

I could talk at great length about what the OCCC should do (it's exactly the type of thing my company excels at) but I'll try to be brief.

Upon character creation it should highlight to the player the fun and exciting “stuff” about their new RM character - perhaps a half-page summary in dot-point form that's not part of the character sheet itself but can be used by the player to see if the random elements suit them - background, family, friends, skills, traits, spells, birth defects - whatever. If not, hit the “re-roll” button for a new randomisation.

Perhaps also include a randomised recent history of their escapades, an exciting fictitious rendition of their last encounter with those pesky goblins in Sludgemouth Caves, highlighting some of the amusing story and criticals (and the not-so-amusing ones incurred by the player). This could be expanded to include a partial previous campaign history for extra flavour.

Repeating, the OCCC needs to be slick. It needs to be so good it creates significant word of mouth (forum/twitter/email) throughout “RPG-land”. I have no doubt this is possible if created by the right people. The AI & Knowledge Base is the key. It would also need some limitations to protect intellectual property.

Also pointing out that in no way is the OCCC meant to be a substitute for the normal character creation process.  It’s just an alternative to get players up and running fast.  I see it more as an avenue to convert D&D players to RM.

Of course the OCCC is only the first step. Resources also need to be made available for a D&D/AnyRPG group to play a full RM scenario. I suggest free online starter kits at various character levels to get them underway. Yes, it's spoon-feeding them, but these days probably required.

[Merkir]

The headache would probably be characters' compatibility, though; not only between RM2, RMSS, RMFRP and, one day, RMU characters but, even inside a given system...

Initially, I would hope ICE completely ignore software for anything other than RMU. Let people playing RMC/RMSS/RMFRP fend for themselves until the RMU software is complete and done right. Harsh, I know, but ICE need to take RM to the next level and that can only be done through RMU, not a previous version.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

I have found that between systems, there isn't that much Incompatibility.  Most of it can be overlooked when Using a character as an NPC.

Whilst a skill is just a score you add to a d100 roll, how a skill's score is obtained makes the incompatibility, though, as a low level character in some system (e.g., RMSS) can have a skill a way higher level character would get in another (e.g., RM2). Foremost due to how the level bonuses are calculated but other factors (adolescence ranks, etc.) also play a role.
Then you have the options (how many points to give to secondary skills compared to primary ones, similar skills, etc.) that can change radically how many skills a character has in one system and in another.

Magic may be the most compatible... though the way to obtain the spells (original RM2 method or individual spell development) can change how many spells a character has at a given level.

[tulgurth]

I am with Warl, as I am the player he was talking about.  This is a great idea, but like him, I have no clue how to go about starting something like this up. 

A character generator would be nice, but not necessary.  The main thing we were talking about is just storage for the community of characters we have created.

And as far as not much of help to GM's, I think it would be a boon to a GM.  It could serve 2 purposes: 1.)  A library of NPC's we could pull from from all different levels, especially if the characters are being modified to higher or lower levels and restored.  2.) As a GM of this system, would you really want to generate a last minute character for a new player to RM because one of your players brought a friend along to see the game.  I do not know about you guys, but I learn a system faster if I am playing and taking part in the mechanics of it instead of observing.  And as a GM, I would dread that last minute character creation without some type of software that I am completely comfortable with.  Instead the GM could go to the storage sight and get a level appropriate character for his game.  Then spending a few minutes to edit out anything that does not fit his world or collection of house rules and BAM !!!!  A character for the friend to play on a one night stand scenario.  Then if the friend likes the system and the GM is willing to let him join the group, then let him generate a character on his own within the GM's world when both player and GM have the time to do as such.

I am with Warl on the compatibility issues as well.  I do not think the skill bonuses differ except through higher levels.  Even though the bonuses are higher in RM2 than they are in RMSS, RM2 requires a different method to generate those skill bonuses.  Whereas RMSS just does simple addition due to the division already being handle by the lower stat bonuses, if that makes sense?     

[Verchial]

Something like this? (Attached)

I made this one in Excel.  It does almost all of the math.  A better one could be created by someone with more free time than I have.

[Warl]

that is nice. Yes that format would work...

I just don't know how to make it work as a Web app where you and others could See it, Where each user could make/enter multiple characters, save them and Re-access them later to edit them....

[Turbs]

Character conversion isnt even that much of a priority (IMO)
A slick.. and I stress the word SLICK, character creatiion and level up system is what is key.

 I am imagining something along the lines CRPG charactor creation menus,
ala. Neverwinter nights (the 1995 version)

a simple wizard that lets teh user simply pick race then profession then Culture.

allows teh user to assign stats (and potential stats) then allows the choice of talents flaws.

completing this the user can then simply spend the remain DP's on skill ranks until the level is spent.

Done.

NAIL this wizard, make it slick and stylish then it doesnt matter if i cant port my character as it will only take me five minutes to push a few buttons and make a new one

[Merkir]

That's all very well except that we will soon have three different major versions of Rolemaster, all with quite different processes. I tip my hat to the ambitious people currently working on projects right now with regard to full character creation/progression software. It's a huge undertaking and not one I would venture into. For example you mention talents, flaws, stats, etc... all handled differently (or not at all) in the various flavours of Rolemaster.

A best case scenario is that RMU is so good that everyone will want to switch to it, so that any software developer would only need to cater for the one rules set.

[Voriig Kye]

For all of you interested in a character creation application, do not miss the new thread on the software section of the forums:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=14144
It is not anywhere near being an online character database... but it could be a start.

[arakish]

From what little, and I emphasize LITTLE, I have learned about internet databases, it seems to me that the best route to go is using SQL and PHP.  I took an introductory course in SQL/PHP Internet Programming some years ago.  From what I remember of that class, SQL/PHP can be quite potent and powerful.

However, I know very little on SQL/PHP.  But thought it might be an idea if you are willing to learn...

rmfr

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

From what I remember of that class, SQL/PHP can be quite potent and powerful.

And totally inappropriate in this case, as far as SQL or, rather, a relational database, is concerned. Considering the absence of relationship between the different tables needed in this case, and the simplicity of the needed schema, a document-based database, such as MongoDB, would be more appropriate and efficient.