Topic: ICE Adventure Modules

[JohnD]

Adventures need to be easily transferrable to VTTs like Fantasy Grounds IMO as well.

But yes, more adventures are key especially if they give you copious amounts of information about the area.

[Elton Robb]

Well, yeah.  But there has to be a happy medium between "copious amounts of information" and good use of space in a PDF.

Elton.

[ironmaul]

So what would one expect to pay for an adventure?
How many pages is the normal adventure module?
How long does a normal adventure run?
What would be your expectations for a normal module, such as maps, NPC's, art?

[RandalThor]

So what would one expect to pay for an adventure?

I would reasonably pay from $15 - $40 for adventures, depending upon how large and expansive they are, and if they also have area info, like many of the old Shadow World modules. In a quick list format;

$15-$20 = Fairly short and sweet adventure that can be played in about 2-sessions, but is possible to get done in a singel session. Not very much info about local area, just enought for the adventure.

$25-$30 = Here we are getting into a more complicated adventure, one with several "steps" that are needed to be accomplished before finishing. It could be finished in 2-sessions, but likely will take 3, possibly even 4. More detailed information about the area, including things that might not be used in the adventure.

$35-$40 = Here is more like an area sourcebook with an adventure along side, or a long adventure with many, many "steps", as well quite a bit of information about the local area, including prominent locals, places, laws, etc... even stuff not needed for the adventure, but will add with flavor.

In ALL cases see the last question and answer.

How many pages is the normal adventure module?

I don't think there is a set number there. But, I would prefer my modules to be minimum of 20 pages, usually around 30-40 pages, including maps and specific individuals and creature descriptions.

How long does a normal adventure run?

Again, no baseline to use here. But, I like my adventures to be from 2-3 sessions in length, with sessions averaging around 6-hours in length. For some more involved adventures, i am good with a 4-5 session running length.

What would be your expectations for a normal module, such as maps, NPC's, art?

I have made my preferences in this arena very clear in the past, but here it goes again: ART!ART!ART!  &  MAPS!MAPS!MAPS! Oh, a few to several moderately developed NPCs are nice, as well, but I don't have a problem taking minimaly detailed NPCs/creature-beings and going into detail on my own. For example: The adventure Cult of the Third Moon in the Jamain, Land of Twilight setting book, has a high-priestess, some lesser priestesess, and a Caliban-like dude, all of which have some, but not much detail to them. I have deteiled each of them out, individually and how they work together (or not-so-much) to the tune of several pages (~6) worth of information. And, done several - approx. a dozen - of the nearby townsfolk nearly as detailed, for another ~8 pages of info. So, while having it is nice, I don't have much problem doing that on my own, what I cannot do is draw worth a damn, so art is critical. Now, I am pretty-good at maps, it is just that they can take a long time and having some pre-existing maps is a huge time saver.

[dagorhir]

Although I really like making my own adventures, I don't having ready-made ones available. They give me something to play with in a pinch.

What would be your expectations for a normal module, such as maps, NPC's, art?

I have made my preferences in this arena very clear in the past, but here it goes again: ART!ART!ART!  &  MAPS!MAPS!MAPS! Oh, a few to several moderately developed NPCs are nice, as well, but I don't have a problem taking minimaly detailed NPCs/creature-beings and going into detail on my own. For example: The adventure Cult of the Third Moon in the Jamain, Land of Twilight setting book, has a high-priestess, some lesser priestesess, and a Caliban-like dude, all of which have some, but not much detail to them. I have deteiled each of them out, individually and how they work together (or not-so-much) to the tune of several pages (~6) worth of information. And, done several - approx. a dozen - of the nearby townsfolk nearly as detailed, for another ~8 pages of info. So, while having it is nice, I don't have much problem doing that on my own, what I cannot do is draw worth a damn, so art is critical. Now, I am pretty-good at maps, it is just that they can take a long time and having some pre-existing maps is a huge time saver.

I have the same expectations, mostly for maps. I good little story and some maps can go a long way if I need to get a game going quickly. The NPC details are not that important since I'm likely to have to change them to fit my group's characters.

[WoeRie]

Free adventures are nice, but I think really missing is a great campaign, going over multiple adventures (or combining some older modules). Like the Great Campaign of Shadow World, or the Echoes of Heavon Campaign from Rob, but a bit more "finished"

[ironmaul]

RandalThor, thanks very for the reply and insight, much appreciated.

...what I cannot do is draw worth a damn, so art is critical. Now, I am pretty-good at maps, it is just that they can take a long time and having some pre-existing maps is a huge time saver.

Well few people think I can draw pretty good stick men for GCP(I think their trying not to hurt my feelings). I've only experimented with map drawing but the thing with hand drawn maps(everyone seems to like and want) is that it'll push the price point up.

Since the RMU initiation, I've been doing some thinking on creating an adventure module similar to your description packed with NPC's, creatures, and art to boot. Of course this is something that needs to be nutted out with GCP one day but I'm looking to branch out.

I would also look at a collaboration project with someone, depending on the project of course, as I could easily create the interior and cover artwork for the module(and perhaps some layout). If anyone is interested let me know privately, I'm easy to find.

[RandalThor]

Free adventures are nice, but I think really missing is a great campaign, going over multiple adventures (or combining some older modules). Like the Great Campaign of Shadow World, or the Echoes of Heavon Campaign from Rob, but a bit more "finished"

I am totally up for a kick starter for something like an Adventure Path or Grand Campaign...

[LonePaladin]

+1 Idea Point to WoeRie for that. I'd be all over that.

I've looked over this thread for an idea of what to do with my SM proposal. (Getting a whole bunch of books in a setting I've never used tends to get me all spergy about it.) I'm seeing everyone talking about Shadow World -- duh!  -- and Cyradon, but nothing about the Privateers universe.

I'm not necessarily taking this as an indication that there's no interest in it, just that RM and HARP get a lot more exposure.

I expect to have my other projects cleared soon, so I can start taking some feedback for my first adventure submissions. They won't have any art (beyond what I can legally find online), but I'll do what I can for maps.

[Keen_Man]

I quite like modules for d&d but most of the old ICE ones I did not like much. When I get a module I expect a fully finished ready to run adventure that's easy to read and follow.

I would happily buy some adventure modules from ICE if they are well written and easy to use though and be glad for it.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Ok, I love having pre-made adventures to run.  As a father of 3 I want anything that will allow me to spend less prep time to run an adventure.  I enjoy writing my own, but also love to just grab one and go.

[GrumpyOldFart]

How long does a normal adventure run?

Define "normal". I figure there are 3 purposes for a module:

1. Quickie. Spur of the moment, "I know, let's roleplay!" Very generic, needs very little prep, can go from start to finish in, say, 6 hours tops. Characters are very "canned", very simple, story is nearly non-existent. 1 small scale map, minimal art. "The Ruined Outpost In The Foothills", etc. You don't need to specify the foothills of *where*, the surrounding countries/cultures aren't germane to the adventure. By the time you go back to town even once, you're probably done already. The point is to give the gamer something that requires virtually no prep and no real context, something to blow a single evening on with no need to commit to any later times.

2. What I think of as "typical adventure module", although I suspect it might be easier to sell the mini adventures above. It can be done in a weekend, but only if you start Friday evening and don't sleep at all Friday or Saturday night.
 
This one has at least one "parent culture" it fits into, possibly (but not necessarily) tied to the "standard setting" of the game system. It doesn't exist in a vacuum like #1 above, there's a reason for the adventure. There's probably at least 1 or 2 NPCs that need to be filled in but most of them are "extras" that a broad character sketch will do for. Requires at least 2 maps: A detailed one for the actual adventure area, and an area map that relates the adventure area to the larger context, including the place where the people are who sent the party out. Needs enough artwork to get a feel for the storyline and hit high points, without being distracting from the story. #1 is location driven, this one is scenario driven.

3. Sub-setting sourcebook: A lot of the purpose of this is to provide more depth to a given area of the "standard setting" (or possibly something completely independent of the "standard" setting, but not independent of several other modules). To that end it needs to be loaded up with artwork and maps and cultural notes and etc. But it's also the opportunity to build a storyline too big to be called a mere "scenario". Lots of depth to NPCs, and ideally more than one way the story could "properly" go. This is something that can't be played in a single weekend, no matter how much Red Bull you drink. Takes at least 2 sessions and possibly half a dozen or more. Perfection is when several of the #2 adventure modules above tie into this one and can use it as a sourcebook/supplement.

Cost? I dunno, I can't call that one. Obviously you want as much wow factor as you can get so it'll sell. On the other hand all that drives up the price, and you also want it as cheap as possible so it'll sell. Don't ask me, I suck at those kinds of calculations.

[WoeRie]

Free adventures are nice, but I think really missing is a great campaign, going over multiple adventures (or combining some older modules). Like the Great Campaign of Shadow World, or the Echoes of Heavon Campaign from Rob, but a bit more "finished"

I am totally up for a kick starter for something like an Adventure Path or Grand Campaign...

Maybe we can try to awake Defendi to finish his Echoes of Heaven campaing using Kickstarter? He's coming from the US and the first 5 adventures were really great. However the last 5 are still missing. This would be a really nice and long campaign for HARP and Rolemaster (needs a few tweaks for the new versions of course).

[Elton Robb]

Free adventures are nice, but I think really missing is a great campaign, going over multiple adventures (or combining some older modules). Like the Great Campaign of Shadow World, or the Echoes of Heavon Campaign from Rob, but a bit more "finished"

Well, the adventure paths from Paizo are "Great Campaigns."  They are very linear, and many times, they try to describe something that will happen if any characters have previously died during the great campaign.  Like in the Jade Throne series, if one of the characters died previously; it can cause problems so they suggested some ideas.

[Zut]

I have the same opinion as GrumpyOldFart: different module length would be great. And maps. 

I would particularly appreciate short adventures (3-4 hours long). I think it would be a good way to start mastering the new systems (RMU and new HARP). Complete stories and tips for new GM.

An important addition (for me) would be some kind of graph (visual element, not just text) showing how the different parts of the adventure (scenes) interacts between each other. I enjoy old D&D modules in describing every room, NPC, etc., but I need to read the entire book to understand how hte people and the places are linked together. It doesn't have to be a linear adventure. It could also be a timeline of what (will) happens in the background. Is my idea clear enough? 

I've been wanting for a long time to run a series of short city based adventures, a city like Waterdeep. You know, something like the PCs being a part of a local "special force" or something, having usually straitforward missions. My goal is to account for player variability with attendance as this is an issue with student players (during exams and holidays). And it could be easier this way to introduce new players almost anytime. 

If I take for example what Allen Maher did with the first adventure seeds from the Cyradon book. Those were great, short, and there were some kind of "random encounters" at the end. There were even pre-gen PCs!

[providence13]

I've been wanting for a long time to run a series of short city based adventures, a city like Waterdeep. You know, something like the PCs being a part of a local "special force" or something, having usually straitforward missions. My goal is to account for player variability with attendance as this is an issue with student players (during exams and holidays). And it could be easier this way to introduce new players almost anytime. 

I had one group in a city overrun with demons and evil priests. The town was initially sacked by an invading barbarian horde but they got bored as an occupying force. Sackers don't stick around. The players were hold up in different places each night making raids on the opposition, trying to free the city. Not one of them had been in a strictly city adventure before. Having no shops to speak of and knowing that loot needed to go back in the hands of the populace was a different game for them. Having a major goal and many minor goals in the city was easy to plan as opposed to why is this dungeon/crypt here (and who built it?) or political intrigue of my other games.

I'd buy a supplement like this. Waterdeep and Greyhawk are good starting points. Changing names, races, professions as needed. I need to write something for RM. Oh, well. I can always procrastinate tomorrow..

[RandalThor]

I'd buy a supplement like this. Waterdeep and Greyhawk are good starting points. Changing names, races, professions as needed. I need to write something for RM. Oh, well. I can always procrastinate tomorrow..

Both Lethys, a city is southern Rhakhaan on the island continent of Jamain, and Sel-Kai in northern Emer, both on Shadow World (Kulthea) would work great for this. I think it could be cool to take the premis of the White Wolf, World of Darkness suppliment, 13th Precinct and use it for such a campaign. For those not familiar, it is about being a cop in a city, at Precinct 13, and ultimeately havning to deal with the more mystical, supernatural side of the criminal world. (Like a serial killer turning out to be a ghost inhabiting different people, or a werewolf, etc...) I would totally play that! (Hell, I might run it.)

[ironmaul]

An important addition (for me) would be some kind of graph (visual element, not just text) showing how the different parts of the adventure (scenes) interacts between each other. I enjoy old D&D modules in describing every room, NPC, etc., but I need to read the entire book to understand how hte people and the places are linked together. It doesn't have to be a linear adventure. It could also be a timeline of what (will) happens in the background. Is my idea clear enough? 

Yeah, I think I know where your coming from. A time line for the GM giving information of what will happen when even if the PC aren't in the local vicinity. Like some creature that only ventures out at night at a certain time or when a group of bandits will leave to attack the stage coach etc.

I would particularly appreciate short adventures (3-4 hours long). I think it would be a good way to start mastering the new systems (RMU and new HARP). Complete stories and tips for new GM.

That's a good idea, and I think it would help solidify new/young GM's in ICE products. A series of adventures where each consecutive adventure focuses on two or three aspects of resolving outcomes with skills, spells, and social interactions...sort of a GM's guidelines to running an adventure. I think younger audiences would be the main target for this product.

Actually this just came to mind...what if these adventures where created specifically for the new RMU. Have a packaged deal, make the new RMU a BOXED SET complete with adventure series, dice, GM screen etc.

Plenty of good ideas coming from this thread.

[chippermonks]

I would not only love some pre-made adventures (they can often give great ideas like in the back of many of the companions), but I also see that the community would be more then happy to help with the procedure

[providence13]

Actually this just came to mind...what if these adventures where created specifically for the new RMU. Have a packaged deal, make the new RMU a BOXED SET complete with adventure series, dice, GM screen etc.

Painted dice or the old school crayon included.