Topic: Your choice of Book Covers

[craggles]

Angus McBride was a badmother

Oh yes - that's undeniable! 

[GrumpyOldFart]

My bottom line for cover art:

...believability is a RM hallmark.

If your cover illo doesn't convey that, I personally will feel like it's misleading to those you're hoping will buy it. If they want something more nerfed but with flashy special effects, they should be playing Exalted or something, not RM. If RMU is even remotely faithful to the game's history, it will be disappointing to them. In short, purely as a business decision, I think "high fantasy", "heroic" (in other words not very believable) cover art will generate negative publicity more than it will positive.

That said, if I'm so smart why ain't I rich?   

[rdanhenry]

I took the liberty of making some drawings to picture the idea of first person art I speaked about above. I´m not an artist (try not to laught too much after checking the image ).

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/88715917/20120731_222716.jpg

Well, if ICE used those, as is, it would certainly make the books stand out from the crowd.

However, a first-person perspective cover would suggest that it is like a video game and likely be misleading given that RM tends to run somewhat more realistically (though there are plenty of fantastic elements) and considerably grittier (particularly in the area of character death). I think if that were done, the covers would need to compensate. Demonstrate a low-level spell on Spell Law (the young mage boiling the soup), historical-looking combat on Arms Law, facing animals instead of monsters on Creatures, no gold on Treasures (maybe some silver, more likely copper and some basic items like rope, tools, food), a bedraggled band performing first aid on one of their injured on Character Law.

[pastaav]

Personally I would prefer if the cover had images that connected to what makes RM special. Much of the old art has been nice images, but they would equally well have fitted some other game.

For instance:
A battle scene for Armslaw with a number of heroes brutally killed and one single hero left who have just prevailed over the large demon would much better transmit the feeling of RM combat than some random hero facing monsters.

Another idea would be that for a gamemaster orienteered title should have images of heroes putting down their weapons when surrounded by badly equiped militia.

For the core books I would suggest some pictures of court life when people are standing watching the king while an assassin silently kill one of the persons in back. Break away from the heroes in the dunegon crawl and you get something that stands out compared to other games.

Spell law is a bit tricky...in this case I would go with rituals in a court setting.

[JimiSue]

...a bedraggled band performing first aid on one of their injured...

The injured one must be the drummer. It's always the darn drummer!

I like Pa's concepts actually. Realism in combat means people will avoid it, and when they engage in it (like with the demon), things do not go down smooth. Regarding Spell Law - the classic image is of a mage of some kind blasting some critter. Aside from a cartoon image from the 1st edition AD&D DMG which I still love (mighty powerful wizard blasting a 1' tall humanoid, which is only seen in sillhouette), I'd like to see something different. Perhaps something like a teenage wizard using a low level illusion to impress a pretty girl (or a low level illusion to impress a pretty boy, if the wizard is female ) or as suggested above, heating food (perhaps by having the wizard summoning clearly magical flames under a pot.

However, this thread sort of gives me the feeling that the cover art is done and it's now about presentation

[craggles]

However, this thread sort of gives me the feeling that the cover art is done and it's now about presentation

It is true that I created the poll specifically with the goal of presentation in mind - I am not 'illustrating' the covers, I will merely be designing the 'look' once the illustrations are done.

Although at the time of writing this, I don't believe the illustrations have been done yet but the subject matter is in the control of Aurigas and the Guild Companion Publications and I'm sure Thom and Nicholas have been reading this.

[markc]

  How about every person is wearing magical transparent Lean armor, so that people can see everyone's small cloths.    
MDC

[GrumpyOldFart]

It is true that I created the poll specifically with the goal of presentation in mind - I am not 'illustrating' the covers, I will merely be designing the 'look' once the illustrations are done.

Whether illustration or layout, I stand by my opinion. The cover should warn potential buyers that this is not your 'classic' RPG where you can do things that are 'heroic' to the point of being foolhardy and expect to get away with it while never being in any real danger yourself.

While of course I can't claim to know the opinions of every RM player, the thing (back in the day, '81-'82) that took my gaming friends from one copy of Arms Law bought out of curiosity to 4 different games, maybe 2 dozen people, who wanted to play RM and nothing else (not to mention a plastic tub the size of a filing cabinet filled with RM books)...

The single biggest factor in that was learning that one orc was a threat that, if not treated correctly, could kill your entire party. The game wasn't filled with fluff to make you look good without requiring you to actually be any good. It was filled with challenges that could be overcome if you played well.

If (to whatever extent possible) the cover conveys that, then those who see that cover and still want to open the book and read will be pleased with what they find there.

[markc]

It is true that I created the poll specifically with the goal of presentation in mind - I am not 'illustrating' the covers, I will merely be designing the 'look' once the illustrations are done.

Whether illustration or layout, I stand by my opinion. The cover should warn potential buyers that this is not your 'classic' RPG where you can do things that are 'heroic' to the point of being foolhardy and expect to get away with it while never being in any real danger yourself.

While of course I can't claim to know the opinions of every RM player, the thing (back in the day, '81-'82) that took my gaming friends from one copy of Arms Law bought out of curiosity to 4 different games, maybe 2 dozen people, who wanted to play RM and nothing else (not to mention a plastic tub the size of a filing cabinet filled with RM books)...

The single biggest factor in that was learning that one orc was a threat that, if not treated correctly, could kill your entire party. The game wasn't filled with fluff to make you look good without requiring you to actually be any good. It was filled with challenges that could be overcome if you played well.

If (to whatever extent possible) the cover conveys that, then those who see that cover and still want to open the book and read will be pleased with what they find there.

 Maybe that can be stated somewhere in the book or on the back cover. Then you just have to get the people to believe it.
MDC

[ironmaul]

My bottom line for cover art:

...believability is a RM hallmark.

If your cover illo doesn't convey that, I personally will feel like it's misleading to those you're hoping will buy it. If they want something more nerfed but with flashy special effects, they should be playing Exalted or something, not RM. If RMU is even remotely faithful to the game's history, it will be disappointing to them. In short, purely as a business decision, I think "high fantasy", "heroic" (in other words not very believable) cover art will generate negative publicity more than it will positive.

That said, if I'm so smart why ain't I rich?   

+1. Standing by your side adding my voice to yours, amen brother!

[JimiSue]

Maybe that can be stated somewhere in the book or on the back cover. Then you just have to get the people to believe it.
MDC

The first E critical should sort that out

Criticals though are a *huge* selling point for RM. I can fairly confidently state that there is no other game that even comes close in terms of the graphic realism that those complex (and often entertaining) tables bring to the game. My (new to the game) players' favourite is the 100 E heat - "All that remains are charred bits of teeth and bone." Maybe some choice quotes along the lines of: "Other RPG: You hit for 12 damage. Rolemaster: You hit for 12 damage, and your vicious slash to the foe's weapon arm causes an additional 3 hits per round bleeding damage and -10 to all actions."

In my mind I'm seeing a video promo like this -

[A front room gaming group. one player looks to be asleep, another texting. The clock on the mantle ticks loudly. All dialogue deadpan monotone, filled with silence and pauses.]

Player: I roll a 17.
GM: You hit. roll some damage.
Player: 8 plus 4... that's 12
GM: The orc dies.

[Cross fade to a much more animated group, all the players watching the combat, clearly interested]

Player: I roll a total of 156
GM: The orc is nimble and has a shield. 50 defense, 10 cover for attacking through the confined space of the doorway.
Player: (looking it up in the book): 96... 96... that's 12 hits and a C critical. (rolls dice). Sweet - 82 (the other players sit back, thinking their job has been done)
GM: Your wild swing scores a deep gash scross the orc's chest - but he's wearing chest armour so instead of opening up his chest cavity, you simply nick his shoulder, he's bleeding for 2 hits per round and cannot parry for 2 rounds. He roars in anger and swings his mace at your head! What's your defense?

[Fade to motivational message. Until one is thought of: "RoleMaster - the roleplaying game of champions"]


Heck, if I had a video camera I'd film it myself at the roleplaying club on Thursday and set it going all viral

N.B. if you're thinking of any videos try and get Felicia Day - she is a) hot, b) geeky, c) into roleplaying, d) likes doing things online

edit - oops - he can't be stunned *and* swing his mace in anger - so changed it to an Unable to Parry result. Disclaimer - all hit tables and critical results 100% made up. I'm a GM. I'm allowed to do that. So there.

[GrumpyOldFart]

...a bedraggled band performing first aid on one of their injured...

The injured one must be the drummer. It's always the darn drummer!

It's Crewman #6. 

[Arioch]

In my mind I'm seeing a video promo like this -

[A front room gaming group. one player looks to be asleep, another texting. The clock on the mantle ticks loudly. All dialogue deadpan monotone, filled with silence and pauses.]

Player: I roll a 17.
GM: You hit. roll some damage.
Player: 8 plus 4... that's 12
GM: The orc dies.

[Cross fade to a much more animated group, all the players watching the combat, clearly interested]

Player: I roll a total of 156
GM: The orc is nimble and has a shield. 50 defense, 10 cover for attacking through the confined space of the doorway.
Player: (looking it up in the book): 96... 96... that's 12 hits and a C critical. (rolls dice). Sweet - 82 (the other players sit back, thinking their job has been done)
GM: Your wild swing scores a deep gash scross the orc's chest - but he's wearing chest armour so instead of opening up his chest cavity, you simply nick his shoulder, he's bleeding for 2 hits per round and cannot parry for 2 rounds. He roars in anger and swings his mace at your head! What's your defense?

[Fade to motivational message. Until one is thought of: "RoleMaster - the roleplaying game of champions"]

wotc had a similar concept for their 4e launch promotional video, and managed only to make basically every d&d fan angry... But I agree that actual quotes from the crits tables would make great commercials 

[JimiSue]

wotc had a similar concept for their 4e launch promotional video, and managed only to make basically every d&d fan angry... But I agree that actual quotes from the crits tables would make great commercials 

The difference there of course is that 4e sucks. It sucks more than the suction dredger that the Dutch are using to build up their sea defences by sucking up sand and depositing it in sandbanks (reference - Sky/Discovery trash viewing: Extreme Machines). RoleMaster at least has the virtue of being a good game

It's interesting how some promotions backfire. My local radio station ran a promo several years ago, at a time where I was a regular listener - 50 minute commutes get boring after a few months. They have never had a great music selection, but the thing that completely turned me off was a series of ads which were all along the lines of "You don't have to listen to <insert 5 seconds of some interesting music I wanted to hear> to listen to this <insert 10 seconds of yet another banal chart clone>". People switched off in droves, the radio station was bought by a larger chain not long after. But even so, I have not listened to that station since.

Marketeers do get some strange ideas sometimes. Not all of them work.

[JimiSue]

It's Crewman #6. 

It's his own fault. He should have put on a different colour shirt that morning.

[ironmaul]

N.B. if you're thinking of any videos try and get Felicia Day - she is a) hot, b) geeky, c) into roleplaying, d) likes doing things online

Yes please!

[Arioch]

wotc had a similar concept for their 4e launch promotional video, and managed only to make basically every d&d fan angry... But I agree that actual quotes from the crits tables would make great commercials 

The difference there of course is that 4e sucks. It sucks more than the suction dredger that the Dutch are using to build up their sea defences by sucking up sand and depositing it in sandbanks (reference - Sky/Discovery trash viewing: Extreme Machines). RoleMaster at least has the virtue of being a good game

I actually quite like 4e. It has its flaws but overall I find it to be a very good game. But do you know what would make it even better?
RM criticals 

[JimiSue]

I actually quite like 4e. It has its flaws but overall I find it to be a very good game. But do you know what would make it even better?
RM criticals 

Each year, my gaming club gives out a variety of awards for games played, with some serious and other not so serious categories. As part of this we give out cheap plastic trophies to the winners. Usually, as the trophies are so cheap, one in the batch is broken - we send that one to the game company that has produced a game with the most broken and unplayable system that we have tried in the last year, along with a headed letter from the committee saying why it has been sent. Last year one of the groups attempted 4e and WotC came very close to receiving that trophy. They didn't get it in the end because unlike the eventual winner, some of their mechanisms did actually work.

Oddly, none of the games companies these have been sent to have replied

[Nortti]

@JimiSue:
Gaming companies should appreciate your feedback. I think it is good activism to have such yearly awards for games.

@Arioch:
Interesting idea. I have been playing D&D and start in a PF group. I think I would like to try what kind of change RM criticals would bring to these.