Topic: Your choice of Book Covers

[ubiquitousrat]

For stylish Tome look check out HackMaster PH by Kenzer. Full colour book, very smart externals, good contents, very well presented. Best book for style I have seen in ages.

[RandalThor]

But I guess it all comes down to the art itself and on how it is combined with it surroundings.

That is basically what I was saying. I have books I like that are from most of the types mentioned above, so it really boils down to the art itself and how it mingles with the format of the cover. No matter what, they have to make people want to pick them up - something I never did with the RM books; it took a friend of mine to introduce me to the game, as I never got past scanning them on the shelves when they first came out.

Chainmail bikinis had their part in the RPG industry, and while they are really impractical (I am looking at you Red Sonja!), you cannot doubt their influence on the hobby (again: I am looking at you Red Sonja!) - and thousands, if not millions, of teenagers. Some of the "best" were by Larry Elmore, if I remember correctly...

Personally, I do not like cartoonish art if it is to reflect anything gritty or "realistic." No big-eyes and small-mouths, thank you very much! And elf ears should not be so big and pointy that they shoot past the top of their head - that is just ridiculous. (Elves are not my personal favorite - I definitely prefer halflings and gnomes to them, and humans overall - but they have been, and will continue to be a big part of the fantasy gaming scene. So, we just have to put up with them, and try to make them as cool and interesting as possible. And not make them into anime elves.)

[intothatdarkness]

Part of it also, IMO, depends on intent. If the new RM stuff is supposed to be fantasy-exclusive, then it should follow those conventions. But if there's intent to make it the baseline for an expandable system it perhaps should look a bit different. Hard to do with any SL products, but maybe ChL and AL should be different to denote their status as foundation products. Assuming, of course, that this is the case.

And yeah, Elmore did do the best bikini covers...

And there should be Dwarves on the cover....

[RandalThor]

Rolemaster was always fantasy-based. Spacemaster was the non-fantasy version of RM. So, the art in RM will be 100% fantasy. (I am pretty-sure.)

For some reason, Rm seems to be going away from the dwarf - who I prefer to elves, as well.

[rdanhenry]

I don't know why you'd say RM is moving away from the dwarf.

RMU will have both Dwarves and Elves, you can rest assured of that.

[jdale]

With the Hobbit coming out, this could be the year for Dwarves.

Personally, they always irritated me. I think it's because people have always played the grudgy curmudgeon all too well.

Elves have always had more variety. With all the different types, it's easier to have your garden variety woods elf and still also have something different. With dwarves, I don't know any game that has had multiple types of dwarves, so they're almost always the standard.

[yammahoper]

core rule book, humans only, with 6-10 cultures and ethnic groups.  leave the lesser non human races to supplments were enough detail can be provided (and source books mean income for ICE).

[Guillaume]

Something different than the others.

Shadowrun books are a big picture with a title and a black band at the bottom
D&D Books are a picture with several top bands
GURPS books are just a picture with the title
Pathfinder has also it's own style.

RM needs to have something different graphically.

[JimiSue]

Chain mail bikini... shows a lot of skin so you can't really classify it in the chain category... is this the real AT2?

[Nortti]

If you have really excellent picture that catches the interest of the new blood then that would be good for sales. Someone here said that it is even more important that book stands out from the bookstore shelf in a positive way and I agree. If it doesnt you wont pick it up from there and the book will not have a chance to impress you with its content.

Some might think that these decorations and covers in a book are somehow a secondary thing and it is the content that matters more. Let me just say that if you would tomorrow go to the middle of the forest and plan to give a bar of gold to everyone that comes to you there, maybe no-one would come as no-one would know you are there. They would miss your gold. It is important that people know what good there is to get.

To make sales the art needs to reflect the spirit of RM to the uninitiated. It will make them pick up the book and have a look inside. If it still looks good at a glance they might start to read some parts. If they like the short part that they read they will buy it.

If ICE is ok with making rulebooks for a smaller audience or as a hobby thats up to them and there is nothing wrong with that.

But hey, babes in chainmail-bikinis: when I was younger I was maybe more serious about this stuff and also thought that babes in chainmail bikinis dont make sense. Well, maybe my views are somewhat more open nowadays and that kind of chainmail bikini actually pleases my eye. Seriously it might be good to have at least one such picture inside the book. It would soften the image of the book and might even have positive effect on some younger potential buyers.

[yammahoper]

I'm sure sexy art sells.  It is fun too.  Yet super sized swords and super sized rediculous armor is so cartoonish, and that's not for me.  It's...well, DnD.  The side of DnD I don't like and thus don't play.

So of course I'm gonna rally against it.   

[jdale]

Overdone it can also drive away female players.

Although, looking around this forum, that may not be a big factor anymore....?

[yammahoper]

There have been female posters...I think Arioch offered them up for sacrifice to Chuthulu though.  I don't blame him.  Old gawds will be old gawds.

[RandalThor]

I'm sure sexy art sells.  It is fun too.  Yet super sized swords and super sized rediculous armor is so cartoonish, and that's not for me.  It's...well, DnD.  The side of DnD I don't like and thus don't play.

Agree totally.

[Nortti]

I'm sure sexy art sells.  It is fun too.  Yet super sized swords and super sized rediculous armor is so cartoonish, and that's not for me.  It's...well, DnD.  The side of DnD I don't like and thus don't play.

Agree totally.

I know guys but... - just one!
You know one picture out of 30 cannot hurt, surely not. Girls wont even notice it before its too late.

Agh, ok I just go back to oogle my collection of chainmail-bikini pics... sigh

[yammahoper]

I'm not saying there isn't room.  I like Frank Frazetta art too.  I have a book of it in fact.

My points of contention have to do with what and why armor was designed.  It was perfectly designed to stop incidental blows and well designed to reduce trama from well placed blows.  Big sholder guards and helmets with horns were not battlefield attire because such accoutrements provide places to hook and snag (not to mention messing with center of balance), which could give an enemy an advantage.  Nothing about armor should provide an advantage to your attacker.

Armor also was high science and engineering for its days.  Its production was by highly skilled craftmen who took thier job just as seriously as we take ours today.  There was no mass production lines with cast dies and presses and molds or electricity, everything was done by hand.  To crank out 100 perfectly tempered breast plates, or 100 perfectly linked jackets of chain required hard work and skill.  The fantastic exagerated armor of pop culture falls far short of the inspiring truth of its history.

The old ADnD Wilderness Survival Guide had a picture of two orge like creatures luridly looking over a massive bolder at two scantily clad princess types clad in haremesque clothing.  That was and remains a GREAT picture.  I can dig me some scantily glad females and be inspired by the boyhood fantasy of being their hero, but if they had been drawn in chainmail halter tops with pleated plate skirts weilding five foot long blades no weapon smith ever produced...well, the picture would just silly.

[Thom @ ICE]

The old ADnD Wilderness Survival Guide had a picture of two orge like creatures luridly looking over a massive bolder at two scantily clad princess types clad in haremesque clothing.  That was and remains a GREAT picture.  I can dig me some scantily glad females and be inspired by the boyhood fantasy of being their hero, but if they had been drawn in chainmail halter tops with pleated plate skirts weilding five foot long blades no weapon smith ever produced...well, the picture would just silly.

Is this the image you are referring to?
Link

[yammahoper]

Yep.  You win the No Prize.

It's in the mail.

(thank you Stan Lee)

[RandalThor]

I know guys but... - just one!
You know one picture out of 30 cannot hurt, surely not. Girls wont even notice it before its too late.

Agh, ok I just go back to oogle my collection of chainmail-bikini pics... sigh

Oh, I wasn't saying no to a chainmail bikini, but to excessively cartoonish art. (Sorry, but I think the Nodwick art on the cover of the loot book for HARP just BLEEEEPPS!) If you are to have a girl in a chainmail bikini, make sure it is appropriately gritty and "realistic" (looking, at least).

Just thought of something: If you have cover art that is covered a bit by titling and other stuff on the cover, please include a full page-sized version of the image on another page in the book - the best spot likely being the very first page after the cover. It is nice to get a "clean" image.

[markc]

The old ADnD Wilderness Survival Guide had a picture of two orge like creatures luridly looking over a massive bolder at two scantily clad princess types clad in haremesque clothing.  That was and remains a GREAT picture.  I can dig me some scantily glad females and be inspired by the boyhood fantasy of being their hero, but if they had been drawn in chainmail halter tops with pleated plate skirts weilding five foot long blades no weapon smith ever produced...well, the picture would just silly.

Is this the image you are referring to?
Link

 I have seen a pic like this in which it is a Dijin or Genie that is peering around the rock.
MDC