Topic: Ignite foe's cloak?

[DangerMan]

Would you allow a spell user to use an ignite spell on a foe's cloak?

U spells require a willing target, of course, but here the target is the cloak; a non-living object.

[Ecthelion]

As long as the cloak is worn by a living being I would say that this being would need to be willing to have the cloak ignited - which would rarely be the case  . So I would not allow it.

[markc]

As long as the cloak is worn by a living being I would say that this being would need to be willing to have the cloak ignited - which would rarely be the case  . So I would not allow it.

 I agree with the above and it has been a RM rule to play it so. 
   Also if the cloak is magical it gets a RR vs. the attack or at least in my game it does.
MDC

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Would you allow a spell user to use an ignite spell on a foe's cloak?

U spells require a willing target, of course, but here the target is the cloak; a non-living object.

Ignite is an 'U' spell? Which spell? From which book and spell list? AFAIK, all spells with a similar effect to Ignite and the Ignite spells themselves (one is in RoCoVII and is a 'F' spell, the other is in the RMSS SL and is an 'E' spell) are 'F' or 'E' spells. Since the RMSS spell cannot be used on a cloak, the others would allow a RR, being 'F' spells.

[yammahoper]

If Spell law list it as U, I would change it to F.  My ignite spells are E, though a magical material may get an RR to only burn a little bit (singe, if you will).

Doesn't this spell have a vey limited range?  If a mage is so desperate to need to cast ignite on a foe that can hit him, I prefer to side on the freindly side for the PC.

Cloak ignites, target takes A heat crit, Easy mnv to remove at 20% activity, Routine at 100% activity.

[jdale]

Spell Law says E for the Magician Base list Fire Law, which means it works with no resistance roll and no spell attack roll.

However the description says "The caster may designate a type of light sources to ignite or extinguish (e.g. candles, torches, fireplaces, and lanterns, etc.). This spell will affect all of the light sources of the specified type(s) within the area of effect."

Area of effect 5'/lvl, range 5'/lvl.

I suppose you could master it to ignite other types of things but I would make it a type F spell in that case, so there is a resistance roll.

There are plenty of other lower level spells on the list that are suitable as attacks already, I don't know that this needs to become one too. I didn't look through all the other lists to compare different Ignite spells.

[DangerMan]

Ignite is a U spell on closed essence list "Fire Mastery", found in Essence Companion. Range is 100'.

The player in question can actually wield fire bolts with a DS of 120 or something. But, he wanted a more subtle and less direct attack, or something like that.. I like his style though, he's not into giving max damage at all costs.

I would probably rule that foe gets an A heat critical if keeping cloak on for a full round, then a B next round, then a C etc. Thus Im not concerned with this specific attack being a game breaker, more so with the precedence of allowing U spells on foe's items

[GrumpyOldFart]

I would at least offer the foe a RR if the item affected is "within the foe's aura".

[rdanhenry]

RAW, a Utility spell isn't going to work. However, given that Mass Ignite at 7th level is listed as F rather than U, you should make them consistent, so go with F if you want to allow the "set clothes on fire" approach. This, however, will make it more powerful than the 3rd level Fire Law spell, which is wood-specific. Frankly, to keep the spells within the power levels of the rest of the list, I'd make them both U.

The name should never have been allowed. RMSS was supposed to keep spells with the same name consistent in effect. Allowing a completely different Ignite spell was sloppy editing.

[JimiSue]

Or you could just whack 'em with fire bolts - I was running my spacemaster (2) game last night and someone scored a crit with a laser (uses heat crits) and managed to incinerate the opponenet's cloak. Since cloaks are not a big detail feature on most military exoskeletons, there was nothing to incinerate. But the option is there, no RR given, you just need the right result on your crit

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

However the description says "The caster may designate a type of light sources to ignite or extinguish (e.g. candles, torches, fireplaces, and lanterns, etc.). This spell will affect all of the light sources of the specified type(s) within the area of effect."

It's why I wrote it cannot be used on a cloak (as written): it's expressively said to only affect a type of light sources.

I suppose you could master it to ignite other types of things...

IMO, that shouldn't be allowed, not without increasing the spell's level, as you don't merely change its parameters but its power (affecting something it was written not being able to affect).

Ignite is a U spell on closed essence list "Fire Mastery", found in Essence Companion. Range is 100'.

Ah, that's why: I don't have the Essence Companion. The question would be then: what does the spell allow to ignite? Light sources? Flammable items? Anything?

[GrumpyOldFart]

This gets into hair splitting. Is a downed tree a light source? It is if you make a campfire out of it.

How about a burning building? 

[yammahoper]

Anyone remember the Lord of the Rings cartoon that inspired this spell?  Early ADnD had the spell to.  It was the magic trick Gandalf used with the aid of One of the Three( Narya?) elven ring he wore to help the captured dwarves escape the Goblin King.  The rip off is so blatent, yet it captures perfectly the sort of power I imagine a Mage, Master of the Elements and Magic, to weild.

[jdale]

The Fire Mastery spell works on "one flammable object" so a cloak is within its parameter. It's a 3rd level spell, type U. RAW it can't be used against something worn by a resisting target (because it's type U). I would not be inclined to change that personally, since it is only 3rd level. But I'm sure you could find creatives situations to ignite things close to your target rather than actually on them.

[Ynglaur]

Dry rushes on a castle floor?  Tapestries?  Seat cushions?  A blanket hanging on a chairback?  Lots of possibilities.

[VladD]

If enough heat, oxygen and pressure is present EVERYTHING can burn/ corrode. So I don't think its about splitting hairs, its about the meaning of the spell and its wording. It is obvious only light sources can be ignited by the first spell and the other spell says flammable: and then I assume stuff like pitch, oil, tinder, wood and things like dry rushes and the like.

Some stuff isn't meant to burn: a moldy rotten thatch roof just won't ignite, unless the heat is enough to drive the moisture out before igniting it. Solid oak beams will scorch for a while, but without more fire sources it will peter out, leaving a 1' burn mark, unless, perhaps it is so dry that the fire can propagate itself.

Its a GM's discretion area. Some will be fine with it, others will be less enthusiastic.

My players have learned, though, that oak WILL burn when you splash it with lamp oil before using the ignite spell...