Topic: How to create magic robes?

[whitedalek]

A player rolled up a new character and was inquiring about buying magic robes. All the magic armor I've created has been normal armor, so I thought I would breakdown the Robes of Protection to see how robes with a DB bonus was created, but I'm running into some problems. The highest level spell is 14 and the time to create the Robes is 64 weeks. When I do the math, I'm off a bit. I can understand:

14th level spell for the increased armor type (2 steps)
10th level spell for the daily III spells
9th level for Armor II (+10 DB)

Then I'm torn between 3rd level Enchanted Robes and 1st level Work Cloth. The total spell levels for Robes of Protection should equal 38 (if you divide the base cost of 12,160 by 5 (armor) and then again by 64 (time)). Can someone tell me what I'm missing? Thanks!

[arakish]

From looking up your question, it seems you are using a different method for Item Creation.  I use the methods as discussed in the latest Treasure Companion.  I use this system because it is much more complete and accurate, but that is my opinion.  In the least, its methods of calculating the time and value are closer to the methods I developed for our world of Udava.

    A) Work Cloth (1) - this is needed to make the robe.
    B) Enchant Robe I (3) - this gives the robe a +10 DB bonus.
    C) Armor III (14) - to increase the robes AT from 2 to 4.
    D) Daily III (11) - to embed a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level spell.
    E) spell2embed (3) - this is the spell to be embedded.  Since I do not know what the spell will be, I have used the highest level available, 3rd level.
Total Levels = 32.

Another way is to make the robe magical to begin with using the Work Magic Cloth spell (lvl 17) instead of the Work Cloth spell.

Time is calculted by using the below:
    A) Normal Robe
        1) 1 week to make the robe (Work Cloth)
        2) 14 weeks for the Armor III (14 x 1)
        3) 28 weeks for the Daily III and "spell2embed" ((11 x 2) + (3 x 2))
        4) 9 weeks for the Enchant Robe I (3 x 3)
Total Time = 52 weeks.

    B) Magical Robe
        1) 17 weeks to make the magic robe (Work Magical Cloth)
        2) 14 weeks for the Armor III (14 x 1)
        3) 28 weeks for the Daily III and "spell2embed" ((11 x 2) + (3 x 2))
        4) 9 weeks for the Enchant Robe I (3 x 3)
Total Time = 68 weeks.

Base Cost = (total levels of all spells necessary for the item) x (total time in weeks needed to create the item) in gold pieces.

Normal Base Cost = (32) x (52) = 1664gp.
Magical Base Cost = (48) x (68) = 3264gp.

Normal Selling Price = 1664 x 4 = 6656gp.
Magical Selling Price = 3264 x 4 = 13,056gp.

Hope this helps.

Of course, I could have missed on figuring what you were asking.

rmfr

[whitedalek]

Thanks for your help. After looking at your breakdown, I realized what I did wrong. I forgot to include the Imbed spell along with the 1st level spell imbedded. Here is the breakdown for the Robes of Protection:

A) Armor III (14) - to increase AT to 4
B) Daily III (10) / Imbed 1 (3) / Protection 1 (1) - to imbed Protection 1 3x/day
C) Armor II (9) - +10 DB
D) Work Cloth (1)

Now the math comes out right. There are 38 spell levels total and a time cost of 64 weeks. Thanks for mentioning the Imbed spell as that's what made it click for me.

[markc]

  Another way is to have the robes cast all the spells with a duration of 1 day and then cast then again on the next day. But the problem here is that they can be dispelled where as the permanent magic items cannot be.
  You can also have some sort of custom skin/cloth in your game that the person can wear as robes, or encumber as robes do to its magical nature.


MDC

[arakish]

... have the robes cast all the spells ...

Thanks markc.  Missed that one.  Then again, I was going to the quickest method to get the robes made.  Having the robes cast the spells would mean adding the appropriate intelligence which would take even longer to create the robes.

I just thought of a new magic item question: How do you handle the intelligence of an item?  I am off to create the new topic...

rmfr

[yammahoper]

Yeah, TC is one of my favorite books, but it utterly fails to consider real life economic stresses in its time requirements.  The time to make is a pretty equation, but completely off balance, imo.

A robe tha protects no better than a light animal hide with a small DB bonus takes over a YEAR to manufacture?  Why not an AT2 Robe, +20 superior in about, oh, three to five days?  Even using AT2, this would make the robes superior protection that AT4 calculating first hit and first crit.  AND it cost next to nothing.  5gp can purchase a +20 superior staff at level one (base cost 5cpx1000 equals 5gp, probably less after a purchasing roll on the trading table in GM Law, since I rule all wood and leather objects are extremely common, thus roll is resolved on the over supplied market...still, 2go is close to a YEARS wages).  The same is so for the superior robes.

TC remains one of my fav books, but the cost of magic items needs to be revised, as does the time of production.  The rules need to be more than a neat mental exercise.

[mocking bird]

Just to make this a little more confusing, but save time, don't you get a .75 time modifier for the imbed as it will be a daily use?

isn't

B) Daily III (10) / Imbed 1 (3) / Protection 1 (1) - to imbed Protection 1 3x/day

redundant?  You would only need the daily III, not the additional imbed.

You also have the optional rule of dividing the time between several alchemists if possible if the character isn't making it himself.

[arakish]

Yeah, TC is one of my favorite books, but it utterly fails to consider real life economic stresses in its time requirements.  The time to make is a pretty equation, but completely off balance, imo.

A robe tha protects no better than a light animal hide with a small DB bonus takes over a YEAR to manufacture?

TC is one of my favorites also.

However, IMHO, yes it is a bit ridiculous with the time factor.  I was listing RAW.  In actuality, in all my worlds, I use "days" as the time factor, not "weeks."  The only time I ever used "weeks" was if the Forger were making the equivalent of an Artifact or Legendary Artifact.  Otherwise, I always use days.

rmfr

[arakish]

And forgot this:

Base Cost = (total levels of all spells necessary for the item) x (total time in weeks needed to create the item) in gold pieces.

Instead, I use the equivalent:

Base Cost = (total levels of all spells necessary for the item) x (total time in days needed to create the item) in gold pieces.

Although not RAW, if the item is Artifact, base cost uses the uppermost formula, then x250.  Legendary Artifact is the same but x750.  (I have to look this up to be sure.)

rmfr

[markc]

Whitedalek,
 I am not at my books so this may be a poor question, can you improve cloth armor to leather armor? I thought you could only increase armor in its category, ie chain to higher AT chain.


 Also you might want to deal with this problem in other ways.
 1) Often a single rank in Armor Light will allow them to wear leather, which can be enchanted as normal.
 2) Invent Lesser Giant Spider and Greater Giant Spider cloth. Both come from the same animal bot the greater version requires more intense refining and working. Pick a bonus and price that works for your game.
 3) Like 2 above create a special cloth material that provides the bonus/armor type you would like.


MDC   

[yammahoper]

While not a listed rule, use an Armor II spell to increase armor cat by one, an Armor III by two, an Armor IV by three. 

So a shirt could become AT 13, a leather jerkin AT 17, etc.

[arakish]

While not a listed rule, use an Armor II spell to increase armor cat by one, an Armor III by two, an Armor IV by three. 

So a shirt could become AT 13, a leather jerkin AT 17, etc.

I cannot see this.  If Armor II increases by one, then it takes something like AT6 and makes it AT7.  A shirt would be AT1.  How do you get it to AT13?  A leather jerkin is AT5.  The best it could be increased to would be AT8 (Armor IV).  Or did I miss something?

rmfr

[Kristen Mork]

While not a listed rule, use an Armor II spell to increase armor cat by one, an Armor III by two, an Armor IV by three. 

So a shirt could become AT 13, a leather jerkin AT 17, etc.

I cannot see this.  If Armor II increases by one, then it takes something like AT6 and makes it AT7.  A shirt would be AT1.  How do you get it to AT13?  A leather jerkin is AT5.  The best it could be increased to would be AT8 (Armor IV).  Or did I miss something?

rmfr

The key word, I believe was "cat."  In other words, Armor II increases you from cloth to soft leather, or from chain to plate.  I.e., you add exactly 4 to the AT (this is important because AT 4N is usually better than AT 4N+1.

[yammahoper]

While not a listed rule, use an Armor II spell to increase armor cat by one, an Armor III by two, an Armor IV by three. 

So a shirt could become AT 13, a leather jerkin AT 17, etc.

I cannot see this.  If Armor II increases by one, then it takes something like AT6 and makes it AT7.  A shirt would be AT1.  How do you get it to AT13?  A leather jerkin is AT5.  The best it could be increased to would be AT8 (Armor IV).  Or did I miss something?

rmfr

The key word, I believe was "cat."  In other words, Armor II increases you from cloth to soft leather, or from chain to plate.  I.e., you add exactly 4 to the AT (this is important because AT 4N is usually better than AT 4N+1.

Ding ding ding!  We have a winner.  Your NoPrize is in the mail 

I do miss the soapbox of old...very, very old.

[arakish]

While not a listed rule, use an Armor II spell to increase armor cat by one, an Armor III by two, an Armor IV by three. 

So a shirt could become AT 13, a leather jerkin AT 17, etc.

I cannot see this.  If Armor II increases by one, then it takes something like AT6 and makes it AT7.  A shirt would be AT1.  How do you get it to AT13?  A leather jerkin is AT5.  The best it could be increased to would be AT8 (Armor IV).  Or did I miss something?

rmfr

The key word, I believe was "cat."  In other words, Armor II increases you from cloth to soft leather, or from chain to plate.  I.e., you add exactly 4 to the AT (this is important because AT 4N is usually better than AT 4N+1.

Ding ding ding!  We have a winner.  Your NoPrize is in the mail 

I do miss the soapbox of old...very, very old.

To be honest, that is what I thought, but I would never do that.  Like markc said, I think armor types should stay within the same category.  For example, the shirt could never be leather without actually being leather.  Leather cannot be chain unless it is actually chain.

Yes, I know, magic can do strange things.  However, I think it better to leave armors within the same category and just say it has a DB bonus.  Something like a "luck shield" which helps to turn the attack enough to lessen the severity.

But not everyone will do things the same.  And that is what makes role playing so interesting.  If all GMs did things the same, well, I'm sure y'all can figure out what would happen.

Thanks for the confirmation Peter and yamma.

rmfr

[providence13]

I do allow AT to be increased beyond it's cat but with special considerations/limitations.
The party found a magic spider silk shirt; protects as chain shirt but only vs cutting and piercing. Sure it has a DB bonus but the party hasn't seen one over +15, which is plenty for our game. For my game, high DB bonuses can be more powerful that AT. AT doesn't matter if you can't freaking hit them.
Others may only protect vs magic attacks and another that allows magic but protects vs physical blows.

As long as there are limitations, I think it's ok to bend the restrictions, a bit.

[VladD]

Its simply the way AT works:

within a category (no, leather, Rl, maille, plate) the lowest number is the least form of the armor: a simple jerkin or a cuirass. The higher numbers add pieces; such as greaves and braces, extra pieces, or become a continuous armor.

By enchanting the armor, leather may become rigid as rigid leather or stay supple, but become as impenetrable as riveted maille. Ie, the coverage does not change, but its protective capacity does: so the +4 AT (since each category is divided in 4 sub classes) is only logical.

[Temujin]

You can change the AT category by using Constant spells instead of using the Armor spells however.