Topic: How Many Different Types Of Magic?

[arakish]

This fits best here since it does cover all the different styles of RM.

How many different types of magic do you think there are?

So far I have come up with the following list:

Elemental
Force
Passive
Utilitarian
Informational
Healing
Divinational
Defensive
Illusion/Phantasm
Mind/Mental
Subconcious
Conjuration
Summoning

What others am I missing?

Thanks.

rmfr

[markc]

How about detection/active and personal? But then they maybe subtypes also.
 I will also keep thinking.
MDC

[JimiSue]

Divination would cover detection wouldn't it?

How about:

Invokation - i.e. when a greater power than yourself is actually doing the casting and you're just telling that power where to put it (politely, one would hope)
Enchantment - to make items magical
Influencing - to persuade that hot elf girl that your orc-like features are the height of beauty
Transmuting - changing one thing into another thing entirely
Necromancy - not sure if that would fit into another category

Will ponder more if work is boring today.

[arakish]

Divination would cover detection wouldn't it?

I always thought Divination had to do with seeing into the past/future and/or clairsentience?

Thanks for the suggestions.

rmfr

[rdanhenry]

You can divide into as many or as few "types" as you want, but what is your purpose for doing so? Without knowing that, there really is no answer.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

How many different types of magic do you think there are?

It depends on the exact setting of the campaign but usually either 4 (air, fire, earth, water), 5 (wood, fire, earth, metal, water or earth, water, fire, wind, void), or 2 (white and black).
Though not exactly what you wanted, I guess. ^^;;;;;

[arakish]

You can divide into as many or as few "types" as you want, but what is your purpose for doing so? Without knowing that, there really is no answer.

Sorry.  It has to do with the Mastery skill in my upcoming campaign world.  Instead of using Mastery for a spell list, it is used to focus into a particular type of magic/power use such as Healing, Informational, Summoning, et al.

Sorry for missing the clarification.

rmfr

[providence13]

That sounds powerful for me. Hope it works out in your world.
My Spell Mastery is List specific; same for Magical Languages..

In fact, it sounds like specialist Mages from AD&D 2nd ed.
Nothing wrong with that. I think it works in RM very well.

So do you design the Profession and Base Lists around the Specialization?
Or take a standard Mage, for instance and give them the TP/Talents of Fire, Force, Dark, Light, Charm, Divination; whatever you decide..

In RM, there are Force, Utility, Elemental, Fm... spells mixed up in the same List, so I wouldn't go with the "Types" of magic in RM, myself.

I use Spell List Specialization and make a List Everyman. Then all other Lists in that Category (Open, Closed, Base..) are Restricted. If I want a Fire Mage, I have them Specialize in Fire Law and then all other Base Lists are Restricted.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

Sorry.  It has to do with the Mastery skill in my upcoming campaign world.  Instead of using Mastery for a spell list, (...)

Since I saw it appear several times, when did exactly the Spell Mastery skill become (in the RAW) a skill you develop for a spell list instead of a specific spell?

[Kristen Mork]

Sorry.  It has to do with the Mastery skill in my upcoming campaign world.  Instead of using Mastery for a spell list, (...)

Since I saw it appear several times, when did exactly the Spell Mastery skill become (in the RAW) a skill you develop for a spell list instead of a specific spell?

RMSS.

[arakish]

In fact, it sounds like specialist Mages from AD&D 2nd ed.
Nothing wrong with that. I think it works in RM very well.

Really?  Then again, I ain't seen D&D since the 1st Edition books back in 1975?  1976?

When I saw the first Arms Law in 1980?, then the first Rolemaster in 1981? I switched over and ain't never looked back to D&D.  My brother actually went out and bought me a brand new set of D&D books back in ?1998.  I think they are third edition, but I skimmed them real quick for a few minutes one day, then I packed them into my "never see the light of day" bookshelf in one of my closets.

Here is the list so far.

Alchemical
Conjuration
Defensive
Detection
Divination
Elemental
Enchantment
Force
Healing
Illusion/Phantasm
Influencing
Informational
Invocation
Mind/Mental
Necromancy
Passive
Personal
Subconscious
Summoning
Transmuting
Utilitarian

I'm still thinking, but ain't getting anymore popping into my head...

Thanks

rmfr

[markc]

  You might also want to take a look at the Chan Comp, Ess Comp and Ment Comp as they have some of the same stuff you are looking for.
MDC

[arakish]

Update Posting

Not finalized, but here is the listing I have so far and with definitions as they apply to my campaign world of Onaviu.

• Alchemical - spells/powers that deal with the creation of magical potions, gases, chews
• Conjuration - spells/powers that transport items or beings from another realm of existence
• Defensive - spells/powers that defend against attacks
• Detection - spells/powers that detect things
• Divination - spells/powers that allow viewing of the future utilizing at least one sense (vision), but may include others
• Elemental - spells/powers that utilize the elemental forces: fire, earth, ice, water, light, air, aether, nether
• Enchantment - spells/powers that deal with the creation of magical items such as rings, weapons, staffs, wands, etc
• Enhancement - spells/power that improve or increase what already exists
• Evocation - spells/powers that allow viewing of the past utilizing at least one sense (vision), but may include others
• Force - spells/powers that directly manipulate matter, energy, the elements, or living beings
• Healing - spells/powers that heals physical damage
• Illusion/Phantasm - spells/powers that utilize the manipulation of the senses
• Influencing - spells/powers that control or influence the actions of others
• Informational - spells/powers that divine information about items, persons, etc
• Invocation - spells/powers that call for the aid of more powerful beings
• Mind/Mental - spells/powers that affect the mind
• Nature - spells/powers that affect nature
• Necromancy - spells/powers that affect the dead and spirits
• Passive - spells/powers that are hung and triggered (almost always Wards)
• Personal - spells/powers that only affect the caster
• Scrying - spells/powers that allow viewing of the present utilizing at least one sense (vision), but may include others
• Subconscious - spells/powers that are hung and triggered by the subconscious when unconsciousness occurs
• Summoning - spells/powers that transport items or beings from a location to the caster's locale
• Transformation - spells/powers that change the structure or appearance of items or beings
• Transmutation - spells/powers that change the fundamental structures of substances
• Transportation - spells/powers that aid in travel
• Utilitarian - spells/powers that perform menial tasks

Am I still missing any?

rmfr

[JimiSue]

I have to get to work so not had time to read the above completely but

Communication
Sonics

might also work.

[markc]

Where would non-detection be in the categories?
MDC

[arakish]

Where would non-detection be in the categories?
MDC

   Very good question.  And to be wholly honest, "I do not know."

Nature based spells would have some.  Personal may have some.  Subconscious may have some.  Passive may have some.  Mind/Mental may have some.

Just may have to create a new category called what?  Bewilderment?

Have to think on that one.

I have to get to work so not had time to read the above completely but

Communication
Sonics

might also work.

Communication definitely.  I could make a case where Sonics would be a sub-category of Vibrations which is a sub-category of Force.  Then again, Force could be broken apart into categories.  Maybe.

rmfr

[jaranka]

I would be an Elementalist and specialize in Elemental spells.

It seems to me like things are becoming quite specific, and unless it is very inexpensive to skill up in Spell Mastery, it won't be worth it for many of those categories.  E.g., why break up divination into different categories of past, present and future?  Also, Conjuration and Invocation seem awfully similar.  As well as Transformation and Transmutation.

Other categories seem too powerful and would need to be broken up to prevent abuse. I imagine balancing all the categories would be a daunting task.  Different professions are already 'specialists' in a way (e.g. Elementalist), and have many of their spells from one or two of those categories.  Allowing specialists to specialize in what makes them special seems unfair.

Limiting it to spell lists affects all casters equally.  After thinking about your project I can see why it was done that way.  I wish you luck if you continue on this project, it will probably take a while to balance everything.  Please keep us abreast of your progress.  It's funny you posted about this, my GM was thinking about doing the same thing.

[providence13]

Yeah, I would merge some of those into one category as well.

Detection - spells/powers that detect things
Divination - spells/powers that allow viewing of the future utilizing at least one sense (vision), but may include others
Informational - spells/powers that divine information about items, persons, etc
Scrying - spells/powers that allow viewing of the present utilizing at least one sense (vision), but may include others

Alchemical - spells/powers that deal with the creation of magical potions, gases, chews
Enchantment - spells/powers that deal with the creation of magical items such as rings, weapons, staffs, wands, etc
Enhancement - spells/power that improve or increase what already exists (In items I presume.)
Transmutation - spells/powers that change the fundamental structures of substances
 
The reason I said it sounded familiar..
In 1st ed, Mages could cast whatever spells they had and schools of magic were just descriptions in the spells. They didn't have a lot to do with the game. The Illusionist was the only fully formed "Specialist". They could only cast their own specific spells and a few Magic User spells at later levels.

In 2nd ed, Mages could specialize in a specific school of magic. This choice was made in chargen. Some schools were related and others opposed. Related might translate as Open in RM and Opposed are Restricted; maybe Own Realm Other Base and Restricted.         

                                Illusion\Phantasm
Alteration\Transformation            Enchantment\Charm
Divination (Lesser\Greater)    ✵    Conjuration\Summoning
Invocation\Evocation                    Abjuration
                                Necromancy

The above chart is supposed to be circular. If you specialized in Illusion, then you could also learn Alteration and Enchantment\Charm, but never Necromancy.
If you were a Conjurer\Summoner, then you could cast Enchantment\Charm and Abjuration but never Divination. 
The benefits of this were a bonus to spells\saving throws (RR) plus an extra spell for each level of spell you could cast. In RM, this would be extra PP, I guess.

The real reason I bring this up is RR and game mechanics.
Will each of your 27 types have different RM game mechanics or follow the standard E, BE, DE, F, P, U, I and s, m?

I'm not being snarky, it just sounds like a daunting task. 

[arakish]

...why break up divination into different categories of past, present and future?  Also, Conjuration and Invocation seem awfully similar.  As well as Transformation and Transmutation.

Divination was not broken up.  By definition:
Divination = "the art or practice of using omens or magic or powers to foretell the future."
Evocation = "to call up or to call forth."
Scrying = "the art or practice of using magic to see things physically in a medium, such as a crystal ball, water, etc."

I also used the Mentalism Companion, pp 60-84, to aid in this.  In that book they call it Evoking the Past, Scrying the Present, and Divining the Future.

I do not see the similarity between conjuration and invocation.  Basically, invocation is my way of saying "prayer" or prayer rituals.  There is a similarity between conjuration and summoning.  However, how the two work is completely different.

The differences between transformation and transmutation: transformation only alters shape, transmutation alters composition on an atomic level.  Where transformation could make you look like a chair, you would still be flesh and bone.  Transmutation could turn you into wood, but you would still have a human shape.  In other words, to truly turn you into a wooden chair, a power user would first have to transmutate you into wood, then transform your shape into a chair.  Does that make sense?  Transformation is basically used to turn you into a bird, still flesh and bone, just a different shape.  Transmutation could literally be used to turn lead into gold.  However, most persons are incapable of such sub-atomic control.  It is more simple to turn a pile of carbon into a diamond since all the caster would need to control is pressure and heat.  S/He is not really controlling on a sub-atomic level.

This leads to Franajatal's speech, "That which is the smallest is the same as that which is the largest.  And that which is the largest is the same as that which is the smallest." in this post.

Different professions are already 'specialists' in a way (e.g. Elementalist), and have many of their spells from one or two of those categories.  Allowing specialists to specialize in what makes them special seems unfair.

Also forgot this clairification.  This is based on the "no profession" profession.  The Mastery allows the character to specialize into a type of power/magic use.  In other words, there are no specializations until the player defines such for his/her character.  Sorry for missing this.

Limiting it to spell lists affects all casters equally.  After thinking about your project I can see why it was done that way.  I wish you luck if you continue on this project, it will probably take a while to balance everything.  Please keep us abreast of your progress.  It's funny you posted about this, my GM was thinking about doing the same thing.

Thanks for the well wishes.  And tell your GM he can look here for some help.  I'm still working on it and have not settled on anything definitive yet.

Although I have not updated it in about three months (or did I?, can't remember), here is some other stuff I am working on for power use on my upcoming campaign world of Onaviu.

I will try to remember to update the site this evening when I get home (about 1830hrs Mountain time (UTC -7)).  Currently at work, being a bad boy , and about to leave to attend class at UNM.

Onaviu Power Use

rmfr

[arakish]

The real reason I bring this up is RR and game mechanics.
Will each of your 27 types have different RM game mechanics or follow the standard E, BE, DE, F, P, U, I and s, m?

I'm not being snarky, it just sounds like a daunting task. 

Snarky?  You?     (kidding)

I don't think you are being snarky (provided I interpret it to mean "picky").

But what is

Will each of your 27 types have different RM game mechanics or follow the standard E, BE, DE, F, P, U, I and s, m?

?

Hold on...

Found it.

I have never used this aspect of Spell Law (later Of Channeling, et al.).  I have always treated all spells as being "power" based.  I only typed the spells in accordance to the profession casting them.  In other words, magicians always casted elemental spells regardless of the list it came from.  Animists always casted nature spells.  Clerics always casted prayer spells. Etc. Etc.

I have always kind of treated all magic as coming from one type of power.  I just never tried combining all aspects of Spell Law into one all-encompassing set as I posted here and working on here at my website.

As always, thank you all for your help.

rmfr