Topic: Changing Spell Type

[Marc R]

There are a selection of spells that could allow even a U type spell to affect an unwilling target.  Certain arcane spells can alter a spells type, even to E and all that implies.

Or make it a F spell and allow an rr.

 

I've always felt that E thing was a bit odd. . .like does that mean that if I make Teleport E, that I have to throw it at you and hit? (i.e. a directed spell: Teleportation EAR attack?)

[rdanhenry]

No. The vast majority of Elemental spells simply take effect without either a RR or an attack table. Only the subtypes BE and DE require a roll on an attack table to see if, and how well, you hit your target.

Changing Teleport to E is a bit broken, but that's Arcane Companion for you. Deadly Force spells without a RR -- or Dark Absolution -- are worse. Still, it is a 20th level effect on a Base list of a Profession that is likely to kill itself with its own spell failures before reaching that level, so I guess a "you die" result isn't outside some idea of balance. It won't stop the caster from dying to a Kobold's knife between his ribs.

[yammahoper]

Some attacks are meant to be, even need to be, impossible to resist.  If you drive over a large bomb, or get hit by a mortar, or fall into the volcano, or get shot point blank in several different possible areas, you will die.

The game needs this.  Instant death attacks are broken because they are not fun, but game worlds need them.  They are the things you don't mess with...and when you do, youre not comming back.

So don't tug on Supermans cape, or spit on the Nether Dragon, or teleport away with the bomb three miles beneath the sea or 180 miles straight up, and expect to survive.


An enemy having a magic that cannot be survived isnt a bad thing is all I'm saying.  If you stand before one of the Dukes of hell, and he wants you gone from his realm, YOU SHOULD BE GONE.  If he wants you dead, same story, different GM style.

[pastaav]

I agree that it is broken. I think that it was Rasyr that came with the Errata that changing a spell to E and similar does not remove the RR for the target. This makes the Arcane Companion spells deal with hitting more targets or removing the willing target limitation and not a way to bypass the victims chances to defend. Much more balanced and fun to play in that way.

[Marc R]

Though, once you have to cast a high level spell to cast the other spell type changed, you're escalating toward reasonable. . .there are a lot of 20+ level spells that are rather lethal as is.

No resistance, no hit roll, just don't fumble for a fatality is kind of irksome though.

[yammahoper]

Though, once you have to cast a high level spell to cast the other spell type changed, you're escalating toward reasonable. . .there are a lot of 20+ level spells that are rather lethal as is.

No resistance, no hit roll, just don't fumble for a fatality is kind of irksome though.

Think of it as sitting on a grenade.  If the fuse is good, there is no need to roll the crit.

[Marc R]

Depends on the situation, and how your crew works, some players would go nuclear to lose a character to a no RR, no attack roll "yer dead, now roll a new character" result.

Not that I haven't done it, but it's not an ideal choice in all situations.

[yammahoper]

You make very good points.  My very first gaming exp was Dec of 1980, right before xmas break.  I was in 6th grade.  The game was Tunnels and trolls, a mini course taught by the 7th grade science teacher (Mrs Plakke, one cool adult/chick).  Our first day of class (mini courses were tues-fri for two weeks, then start a new one, etc, throughout the school year, 7th hour) we formed groups and made characters after picking who would be the GM at each table.

A group of DnD kids formed in the corner, but the rest of us were gamer virgins.  I made a dwarf warrior, Thorid Zad (the first of MANY incarnations, ending in Thorid the VI, killed by xbow bolt...ALL my thorids died).  Next day, gear bought, weapons in hand, our group entered THE DUNGEON OF THE BEAR.

After haggling down the door guard to 5gp just to get in, we started down a slopeing floor.  CLICK, and a bolder, ala Raiders of the lost ark (but BEFORE that movie had come out, thank you Bear Peters), started rolling down the slope towards us.  I wasn't sophisticated enough to be angry over the elves high dex, or the fairies ability to fly versus thorid low speed stat...splat!  Thorid was dead before he ever lived.  Let me tell ya...I WAS INSTANTLY HOOKED.  No B.S.  No monopoly esque long painful death ending in bankruptcy, just FINALITY.

I took a book home, learned the game, ran it like mad for about a year, until that summer I found othetr games, but it was RQ that would suck me in.  Them RM.  Each a game with finality written right into the rules.

That is how I like it.

[rdanhenry]

The PC isn't necessarily on the receiving end, though. Arcane users are supposed to be rare, but not NPC only except by individual GM ruling.

[arakish]

Changing Teleport to E is a bit broken, but that's Arcane Companion for you.

What was it called in Harry Potter?  Flume Dust?  You know, where they throw down that ash/dust in a chimney, disappear in a poof of flame, and appear in another place in a poof of flame.  That is good example of a Teleport spell that is "E" in nature.  Yes?

rmfr

[jdale]

Changing Teleport to E is a bit broken, but that's Arcane Companion for you.

What was it called in Harry Potter?  Flume Dust?  You know, where they throw down that ash/dust in a chimney, disappear in a poof of flame, and appear in another place in a poof of flame.  That is good example of a Teleport spell that is "E" in nature.  Yes?

rmfr

It's still never used offensively. So functionally, a Utility spell. The special effects are irrelevant for the game mechanic.