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Diary Entry Two - Where to start...

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John @ ICE:
Well, last time I posted I laid out what this forum topic was about.  Now I’m going to bring people up to speed on what I got done thus far.

So, I lugged out all my old boxes of writing  - you see, I was the GM for my main game group and most others I was involved with. It is extraordinary how much I wrote. I have 5 full campaign worlds and another 4 or 5 half written. I wish I had worked that hard in school!  But actually, like my father said to my mother when I was spending ALOT of time on my game in high school, he is writing, researching, learning, doing math, being creative and NOT doing drugs!  So it worked for him.  In hindsight, I got ALOT of value out of gaming, just learning organizational skills, self discipline to sit down and write to meet deadlines for the next game session, and being fair and impartial amongst my best friends despite how I might be feeling about them personally outside the game at the time.

Anyway, I started looking for inspiration... and the kids walked in – “Watcha doin?” [ Isabella Garcia Shapiro voices a la Phineas and Ferb – and yes, that’s the best cartoon on TV right now] showing the kids all this...stuff.

“Ooooooo! What’s this?” a box of lead miniatures in her hand...So I showed them the all the figures painted over 25 years ago in many cases. Then the dice (including my GM player slayer), lots of pictures, old dragon magazines, game screen with house rules paper-clipped to them. And tons of game books (MERP, ROTG, HARPS, D&D versions through 3.0, including an original white box in “very good” condition.  An old video tape of the animated hobbit movie (can’t even watch that now!)

And this was a good way to get them juiced up to play. What was true was that the dice and the figures REALLY got their interest.  So right then I knew the lead minis would need to be part of the game.

I did manage to go through a lot of my writing and took an idea for a campaign I wrote based on medieval England.  But knew I had to start again – I did this stuff in high school and it was lots of facts and figures, not something that’s going to work for two young girls...

Which got me on another path of thinking – will I need to change the type of game we play to appeal to female tastes (let alone kids), and what are those if they exist at all?  I’m not trying to be sexist here, but I get the sense that boys are pretty happy, most of the time, with hack and slash dungeon crawls.  And I also think it’s true that the girls will like that too, but I think...not all the time and maybe less than boys. 

So, this brought me back to the game rules itself, and I think I now have developed four main things I need to do: (1) It certainly will be derived from RM/HARP (obviously!), (2) It certainly needs to be simple in the sense that a 20 minute reading of the rules means you can play since I need to assume parents won’t always be around to direct, (3) the rules need to support ROLE playing – not just violent resolution, but riddles, tricks, traps, problem-solving, who-dunnits, etc. – and more, than that but I think role-playing in the sense of obstacle/resolution of social interactions, even “social climbing” – not trying to be sexist here, but I note Charley really does feel sad and hurt for certain characters in books who are picked on and unpopular and likes to see them achieve something and become “liked”.  So can I capture that concept as well?

I want this game to be played in a way, even, where violence is a last resort, particularly when it comes to obstacles presented by intelligent beings. 

Wow, now that’s a far cry away from the way I played games in the past for sure.  But, as a parent, I’m desperately trying to avoid my kids seeing any sort of violence.  The nightly news should be rated “R”.  The new Dark Knight movie?  No go for my 11 year old...waaaaay to scary and way to violent.

And I think my wife will feel fairly strong on this point, so I need to get buy in that “this is not bad for the kids” which I know in my heart it’s not, and not only that, it’s GOOD for them!

And I suppose that’s what it comes down to.  I want it to be GOOD for them.  I want it to teach all sorts of math and English skills of course, maybe inspire an interest in history, certainly inspire them to read more. I know it will help them learn how to critical think, problem solve, become leaders and be creative too.  It should also allow them to become proud at their own efforts when they achieve success and learn from failures. In fact all the things my own father recognised as being good for me! And, of course, it has to be FUN. I can’t achieve any of the aforementioned if it is not fun. They won’t play if it becomes “like school”.

So, back my next move. If I am going to try to make a good “starter” game, I need to do a little research.  Yes, I am going to start with our ICE products, but the industry has produced 35 years of innovation and we have no monopoly on that.  So I spent quite a bit of time doing some research and asking industry people and putting some requests out on boards for some “simpler-ruled” games and game systems where social interaction is “ruled up” since I might want this to be a more important element in my game. 

GrumpyOldFart:

--- Quote from: John @ ICE on August 24, 2012, 08:52:11 AM ---(3) the rules need to support ROLE playing – not just violent resolution, but riddles, tricks, traps, problem-solving, who-dunnits, etc. – and more, than that but I think role-playing in the sense of obstacle/resolution of social interactions, even “social climbing” – not trying to be sexist here, but I note Charley really does feel sad and hurt for certain characters in books who are picked on and unpopular and likes to see them achieve something and become “liked”.  So can I capture that concept as well?
--- End quote ---

I think a key point in that, and one I suspect many GMs forget, is that people talk. In a small town of a few thousand (which is a big town in a medieval setting),

If you show up at the healer's covered in wounds, demanding priority over all the other patients and willing to pay top dollar for it.... everybody in town knows within 24 hours.
If you come into town escorting an overloaded wagon, bristling with weapons, pull up in front of the moneychanger's and try to keep everyone from seeing what you've got as you haul it inside... everybody in town knows within 24 hours (probably more like 24 minutes.)
If you try to sell a piece of jewelry that would buy the entire city, goodwill and all, and still not make a dent in its value...everybody in town knows within 24 hours.
If you're rude to the serving girl, or dishonest with the merchant, before long everyone knows. If you tend to look for an excuse to break out weapons and go to carving on people, before long everyone knows.

A major weakness in RPGs, especially those where PCs travel a lot, is trying to put in social pressure. Most of our favorite characters would be outcast as violent psychopaths in almost any civilized society.


--- Quote ---I want this game to be played in a way, even, where violence is a last resort, particularly when it comes to obstacles presented by intelligent beings.
--- End quote ---

If it's going to be an introduction to RPGs, from which they can in theory "level up" to the scenarios the adults are playing in, there needs to likewise be an introduction to violence. That said, if part of the purpose is to develop good roleplaying, well, violence and death should horrify, no? So far as I can tell a big part of PTSD in soldiers is the sense of loss when they realize violence and death don't horrify them anymore. They correctly feel that they've lost something vital to their humanity.

To quote my sister some 35 or so years ago after her first D&D game, "I get it now. It's a game played with fake blood and real fear." Well, add real horror and real disgust to the mix, and you might likewise get a real caution toward using violence and a real regret when it's necessary.

ubiquitousrat:

--- Quote ---...there needs to likewise be an introduction to violence.
--- End quote ---

I would echo this sentiment. Violence is a part of life, whether you choose to accept it or not. Society might place limits around the forms violence can take, and try to stop those "psychopathic" heroes we all seem to love, but nonetheless it's there.

I would take up the suggestion of making violence something to avoid because, by its very nature, it is too dangerous and icky. Adult players who are subjected to Rolemaster quickly (and I mean within the first adventure) change tack and start to roleplay encounters to avoid unnecessary violence. Why? Because as cool as the Crits are, they are deadly.

Make the game focus on interaction and reasonable play, but allow violence to spark off. It probably will at some point anyway... but make it immediately feel unpleasant, too risky and undesirable.

The biggest problem D&D4e had was that fighting was just too much fun and not at all dangerous. Thus, the game was a skirmish game. Make your game feel real and they'll avoid fights at high costs.

My two-penneth, anyhow.

Game on!

GrumpyOldFart:
In terms of putting the 'ickyness' of violence into the actual game mechanics, I think I'd start by looking at Cthulhu SAN checks, various SF games' forms of cyberware induced psychosis, and for that matter the Sanity System alternative for HARP right here in the Vault.

http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item331

Being exposed to violence, and especially coming to accept it as part of 'normal' life, can and does change your worldview and personality.

That said, violence is hardly the only thing mind-wrenching enough to leave a permanent mark. I'd want to include the risk of such things in spell fumbles, encounters with demons and undead, etc. Your first dragon should certainly entail the risk of leaving you blubbering when you should be running for your life.

The bottom line is that any game of any kind is only fun through some form of challenge/conflict. There are lots of non-violent forms of challenge/conflict, violence is just usually the easiest for a GM to run and for players to relate their own individual efforts to the success of the scenario. There's not a lot of satisfaction to evacuating 500 people from the volcano when 10,000 total got evacuated and 1,000 died. The picture is too big for the average guy to feel like he matters in it, even though he sure mattered to every one of those 500.

markc:
 For keeping it interesting IMHO you should pull events and people from the modern day if you are doing a modern day/fantasy type game. Have things that interest both adults and kids, the wonders of the world, heritage sites, historical sites where big events happened. And work those into you game some how.
 I used to run a modern game/spy/hidden magic (players thought it was advanced tech) and I often pulled events from the weird things that happened in the world that week. I do not know the web page that that section was pulled from but it was great to highlight just how unusual things are in the world.
MDC

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