Author Topic: Limits and Issues of Channeling  (Read 2813 times)

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Offline Marc R

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Limits and Issues of Channeling
« on: May 09, 2008, 10:52:44 AM »
Being a channeler, at it's very least restrictive form, is waving a flag.

You detect as being afilliated. . .you'll respond to all those good/evil light/darkness spells.

As it gets more complex, it involves things like behavioral restrictions or requirements, which many GMs do well.

But at it's worst, it comes full circle back to "waving a flag". . .you are afilliated, a part of something larger. . .which means you have allies, some of whom are higher up the heirarchy than you are and can give you orders you might not like. You have responsabilities, which may conflict with your personal ethos, your personal goals, the party goals, or your ability to fulfil other responsibilities. (A Channeling PC never confronted with a "I have to make a choice, am I a loyal member of the king's guard or a paladin first" sort of problem has had it too easy.)

You have a diety who may directly ask you to do things. . . .sometimes things you don't understand or want to do. . ."Sacrifice your son for me." . . . .life can be rather complicated.

You also have enemies, ranging from religious bigotry to persecution. . .and probably in most gameworlds, outright opposed faiths which will be out to get you. A channeling PC is a strong agent of their faith, once they become known, they should be a target. . .people you've never met will be gunning for you.

How many GMs take the time to actually apply those kinds of limitations, problems and obstacles?

Quote from: LordMiller
You detect as being afilliated. . .you'll respond to all those good/evil light/darkness spells.

Not necessarily.  Unholy perhaps but not necessarily evil.  It reminds me of the old AD&D problem of the paladin going around detecting evil and killing all those who 'ping'.  But that discussion is probably beyond the scope of this thread.

Quote from: LordMiller
You also have enemies, ranging from religious bigotry to persecution. . .and probably in most gameworlds, outright opposed faiths which will be out to get you. A channeling PC is a strong agent of their faith, once they become known, they should be a target. . .people you've never met will be gunning for you.

How many GMs take the time to actually apply those kinds of limitations, problems and obstacles?

Not nearly enough I would bet.
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Offline Marc R

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Re: Limits and Issues of Channeling
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2008, 10:58:46 AM »
RM offers a lot more clear rules than the old AD&D saw with the evil detecting Paladin.

If your god is an enemy of their god, then you're of an off affiliation. . . .detect evil might only work on casters, not ordinary worshippers, but if a caster has PP, they are imbued with the essence of a god, or have an active connection to a divine entity, which IMO would ping to a detect.

Beyond that potentially vague GM determination of evil/good darkness/light, there are plenty of detect and lore spells that will ID your exact profession and/or details of your life including your religion.

And the ultiumate litmus test. . .those area effect spells that discriminate targets by faith. . .I've seen a party spy/infiltrator unmasked by accidentally being stunned by one of those before. . .or by failing to get the benefit of a bonus like a Paladin's inspiration spell.

Of course, RM also offers misfeels, to muddy the water. . .you could misfeel self to get out from under detection, or misfeel someone to appear to be evil/dark.

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Offline David Johansen

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Re: Limits and Issues of Channeling
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2008, 11:47:08 AM »
hmmm...that's a good question...especially since my current campaign is particularly morally ambiguous.

Offline mocking bird

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Re: Limits and Issues of Channeling
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2008, 12:04:14 PM »
If your god is an enemy of their god, then you're of an off affiliation. . . .detect evil might only work on casters, not ordinary worshippers, but if a caster has PP, they are imbued with the essence of a god, or have an active connection to a divine entity, which IMO would ping to a detect.

This is interesting - are PP's tainted/blessed?  It does depend on if you count PP's as an active connection or not.  This is interesting as that would mean a channeler would radiate more 'good' while sleeping than walking as he is regenerating PP's.

The problem I have with this is that it makes 'finding the evil guys' way to easy.   Sure there are blocking spells but detect spells are much more  common. 

Quote from: LordMiller
And the ultiumate litmus test. . .those area effect spells that discriminate targets by faith. . .I've seen a party spy/infiltrator unmasked by accidentally being stunned by one of those before. . .or by failing to get the benefit of a bonus like a Paladin's inspiration spell.

Indeed - this as much more direct way of finding out but could be a tricky balancing act between PK and CK.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline Marc R

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Re: Limits and Issues of Channeling
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2008, 12:21:56 PM »
I'd say that a 2x PP multiplier of Loki would ping to a priest of Thor, it's a "Holy object" of an oppositional diety. . .at bare minimum an actively cast channeling spell would react. I'd likely have it ping inactive on a table. . .it would respond to a "Black lore" (Or "white lore" from a priest of loki). . .I think the inability to normally avoid that kind of detect is one of the signifigant drawbacks of being a channeler.

In terms of the holy shout spell, priests will often dump it into the middle of a melee, it's like a stun grenade that only effects enemies. . . .if it's a popular enough spell for a militant priest PC, it's going to be hard to plant an agent who's the channeler of an opposed god into the party.

The "inspirations" angle came up via Power Perception. . . .the mage who always stood back and observed with it, waiting to snuff the first enemy caster or item wielder who entered combat noticed that the rogue never took on the halo the other PCs did when the Paladin started in with his war cry (cast inspirations).

Let me put it this way. . . there are holy items that can only be properly used by a channeler of a given diety. . . .and they'll just not work right for anyone, and likely will harm a worshipper of an opposed god who picks it up, or zap a channeler of an opposed god who picks it up. . .there are some items in CT that directly damage "wrong" weilders rather than going the Will contest route. . .being a channeler imbues you with a specific variant status.

As to the "It's too easy to find them" what's good for the goose is good for the gander. . .unless the GM house rule tones down detect and lore spells, a suspicious mid level caster will bust you fairly easily. . .so the PCs can use that, but then so can NPCs use it on them. . .

Essentially every religion I can think of has a "Martyrdom" concept. . .that being singled out for your faith and persecuted or killed for that reason alone is a risk you take, and a trial that leads to a reward for sticking to your faith in the face of convienience or safety. . .

You wave the flag, you take the PPs, you pray those spells, you are an "elect" among worshippers, you stand out from the flock, and if anything it's your duty to be the one who the hammer falls on. . .you're a budding martyr for the cause, just like countless heroes, saints and holy people in our world refused to hide what they were and died for it.

Easy enough to have misfeel magic items for those instances when the plot needs these kinds of effects not to work. . .or if you want your world to be more mysterious, you can chop down the lores/detects. (If I recall, the Ravenloft setting essentially eliminated detect/divination spells from use for flavor purposes.)
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Offline Warl

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Re: Limits and Issues of Channeling
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 05:48:59 AM »
Quote
In terms of the holy shout spell, priests will often dump it into the middle of a melee, it's like a stun grenade that only effects enemies. . . .if it's a popular enough spell for a militant priest PC, it's going to be hard to plant an agent who's the channeler of an opposed god into the party.

The "inspirations" angle came up via Power Perception. . . .the mage who always stood back and observed with it, waiting to snuff the first enemy caster or item wielder who entered combat noticed that the rogue never took on the halo the other PCs did when the Paladin started in with his war cry (cast inspirations).

This can get tricky depending on how discriminating your Deity is. all "Friendly" targets for one deity Might mean ONLY those of His faith. The Rogue in your above example, may be an "Ally" of the paladin, but becuase he breaks the law and doesn't follow the same code of ethics as the Paladin, The "Inspirations" spell will not effect him.

This is another way To Limit Channelers effectiveness in a party.
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Offline Marc R

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Re: Limits and Issues of Channeling
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2008, 08:32:20 AM »
Too true, in this instance, it was a monotheistic world, or at least, the main diety called himself (itself) "The One God". . . .despite their being many other, "false" gods. . .admitedly, in a pantheonic situation, or a multi pantheonic one, it could get a lot more complicated.
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